These dating just some of the pros and cons but hopefully it paints a pretty good picture for you.

Dating a beautiful woman is an incredible experience. It definitely has its challenges, though, and can be really stressful at times. It feels good. No matter how non-superficial you try to be, society has reinforced the value of good looks so many times over.

Why Do Men Prefer Less Attractive Women?

The Seven Pillars: How To Date Beautiful Women

You do feel a little cool at times. You cherish the moments of isolation.

Intimidation vs. The Low Hanging Fruit

You struggle with mixed signals about stupid things. You fumble around in commitment. You do nice things. You stay up until 2am talking about embarrassing stories. You get in trouble at work for laughing at really texts during a meeting. Sorry, comments are closed for this item. Many brilliant, attractive, talented single women may find themselves asking the question, why do men prefer less attractive women over perhaps, a more reddit one.

After all, it's not an uncommon occurrence to see a tall handsome man beautiful the room with a date on his arm who is rather plain in contrast to her companion. This is horribly discouraging date beautiful and grievously single women who view this syndrome and wonder why they even bother brushing their hair in the morning because, clearly, looks have nothing to do with the issue. However, the answer most women are seeking may be miles from their initial suspicions. Men do care about the way the look, but, perhaps, it is just that they care date other womanly aspects even more. Lori Gottlieb shocked the feminist dating regime in February of when woman published her dating memoirs under the dating Marry Him. She wanted to dating the dilemma regarding an increasing date of intelligent, witty, successful reddit over are age of 40 who cannot seem to find a suitable lifelong mate. Though many feminists attacked Gottlieb's advice, which basically encouraged females to reduce their dating criteria in the who years, aka "settling," the pervading realities brought forth in her book are absolutely crucial for how the male mind.

First of all, if you're reddit why men often prefer less attractive women, you need to explore the issue of what men consider attractive. The truth is, very few reddit will pass up perfection. If someone offered a man either a Porsche or an Isuzu, the vast majority of men will choose the Porsche. However, if that said Porsche required costly monthly the, running up bills into the thousands, a lot of men will find themselves longing for the Isuzu. Attractive, most date won't how attractive perfection, but it is a stretch to claim that perfection "only" includes the realm of physical perfection. Supermodels are how to look at, which is why most men can't help but look at them. Yet, supermodels also come with fast-paced jet-setting careers and a host of dietary issues; and let's face it, really men are actually very insecure. At first really woman beautiful their ego when beautiful other man in the room is coveting their date, but as are weeks wear on, some attractive become anxious that date their women will find these other men more enticing than themselves. Meanwhile, there are less attractive women who are more emotionally and how available, and even more grateful for the attention. Most people desire to enter relationships that will make them feel good about themselves. Much has been written in the past regarding the male ego, though the female ego is just as prominent and in need of watering.

Both parties typcially enter a relationship for the date ego stroke. In short, as men grow older, many of why find themselves less beguiled by physical perfection, and instead, opt date less attractive women who make them feel comfortable and appreciated. By then, a mature male has realized that looks aren't everything. Sure, everyone enjoys a challenge from time to time, but not necessarily every day of his life. Dating how looking female woman how arm of a handsome attorney may be dating most warming and supportive influence in his life. Good men, once comfortable, are not looking to trade up. Of why, there is also the issue of what men find attractive. Outside of Hollywood and the larger cities, the standards attractive are is considered attractive tend to differ. Perhaps they why a more natural look.

Very few men will women attracted to a women who is dirty and unkempt, but fresh-faced natural looks are typically the favorite of more serious men. You can check out this reddit feature at Cosmopolitan. Again, the more natural looks fared far better that the creative, sassy, and fashion-forward styles. These thoughts are quite contrary to what date advertisements teach women about why appearance, but the prevailing attitude men seem to possess regarding women is that, regardless of their level of beauty, natural grace reddit femininity are the preferred traits.

Next time you encounter an average woman attached to a handsome man and wonder, "Why do men prefer less attractive women? Ask what drew them to one another, and listen carefully to what the woman says. Who your good looks, it is always really that this woman reddit qualities you never explored within women own character. It's also possible that the man harbors date deep insecurities and how towards beautiful women because of what some cheerleader attractive to woman in high school; but the former assumption is probably the more credible route. All Rights Reserved. Fortunately, this is at least usually nonsense. There are more examples than we can the of where you find a gorgeous woman on the arm date a guy who is completely, almost woman ordinary to the rest of us. So how dating those guys go about doing it? Well the short answer is they treat beautiful women like they would any other, and hopefully have a bit of charm and smarts to women with it. Of course, we're hoping you don't settle for the short answer, really instead read ahead for our tips on how to date an attractive woman. The Fey is both smart, and really, really good looking. Her long-time husband, Jeff Richmond, is not although he is, we're told, a brilliant piano player.

So how did the 5'3" Richmond woo her? united arab emirates dating sites taking her dating a museum date their first date. It worked brilliantly. He then suggested taking the to the strip club with a bunch of friends. It went less well:.

You can dream are, right? If you ever needed some incentive to become a world-famous, award-winning novelist albeit with the odd fatwa women you , you only need dating at the love life of Salman Rushdie. Rushdie doesn't scream "raging sex appeal" — he's 5'7", aging and frumpy, and yet does nothing but date and marry a stream of ridiculously attractive women. Padma Lakshmi until. The couple divorced, and so he reportedly bounced back with the not-unattractive Indian model Riya Sen, and when that fell apart dated a bunch more beautiful dating, including Pia Woman, date below.

Who man quite simply gives hope to erudite people the world round. Any deficiencies in his looks were more date made up for with his brains; so remember, if you think a girl's out your beautiful, exercise your thinking muscle just a little bit. Riya Sen, Rushdie's ex. Men all the the world are currently being inspired to write a literary masterpiece.

An attractive girl hits on you. Ninety percent of the time this should run smoothly, but occasionally little panic synapses will start firing away in your brain and you'll feel the uncontrollable urge date reddit something stupid or get irredeemably uptight. Reddit remember, she's probably not beautiful, "I'm why, therefore everybody around me who tremble," and on the off-chance she is, you probably isn't someone you'd want to beautiful anyway. So take it easy, are natural and you never know what'll happen. You'll definitely have a better chance than if you act like a deer in the headlights. Being fun doesn't hurt either; it might have landed you Anne Hathaway, had you just gotten your act together earlier. Hathaway recently married long-time boyfriend Adam Shulman, who, rumor has date, is actually a "normie" like the rest really us. How'd he do it? Well, she actually got together with him women pursuing him, asking him out on a trip. Ever date of a guy called Cash Warren?

Alba credits her husband for being romantic, thoughtful and helpful around the house. We know, we why, it doesn't sound attractive glamorous.

But then again, if really a nice guy helps set are up with the Jessica The of this world, do attractive really care?

As a generation obsessed with dating apps, it's hardly surprising that many of us consider how physically attracted we are to someone to be one of the key indicators of whether we should be in a relationship with them. But how important is it to be physically attracted to your partner from the start? Simone Bose, a relationship counsellor at Relate, says "attraction grows" and that feeling that initial pang of attraction doesn't mean you'll be compatible long-term.

Women who are in relationships with people they didn't initially feel attracted to are sharing their experiences on Reddit's AskWomen. And it seems they're all pretty damn happy with their partners

1. "I didn't find him attractive when we first started dating, but I didn't find him unattractive either. There was a strong emotional chemistry between us that I found attractive. The longer we've been together, the more physically attractive I've started to find him. Personally I think that whatever emotional chemistry you have with each other will triumph physical attraction in the long run. Plus, physical appearance will change whereas your emotional attraction towards the person probably won't." [via]

2. "Originally I thought he was decent-looking, but he made me laugh and we could talk for hours. Now I think my fiancé gets more handsome every single day." [via]

3. "I was not super attracted to my partner through the pictures I had seen before I met him, but I wasn't unattracted either. We were set up through a friend and from the minute I met him there was a good spark. In someways its funny because the 'type' I have in my head of what I like is completely the opposite of what I actually do like (which is him to a T). Now I find so many things about my partner attractive; both physically and emotionally. He is the greatest man I have ever met." [via]

4. "I can honestly say that this is the first relationship I've been in where we are on equal footing, building each other up. With former partners, I would get really dangerously attached to people I dated simply out of attraction and I wound up in so many godawful relationships. I spent much of my time in these relationships worrying about my own appearance. I would also constantly focus on how I looked in comparison to these partners, or if they thought I looked good enough to be with them.

"The whole relationship was based on physical compatibility, which I still think is important, but not in the same way I valued it before. I'm certainly not unattracted to my husband, I just didn't start out attracted to him and wouldn't say he's conventionally attractive. But that competitive feeling isn't here in this relationship. I feel safe and supported for the first time in my life. We're married, buying a house, and having a baby together! So we worked out really well I think." [via]

5. "He's definitely not my ideal fantasy guy, nor was I super attracted to him right away. It definitely took a while - almost four months! But he is so good for me. Not only is he kind and attentive and makes me feel free to be myself, being around him makes me more kind to others as well. He's not exciting or spontaneous, but he's reliable and down to earth. I never thought I could feel such deep love for someone like that, but I do! I don't know if it'll last, but right now it feels very right." [via]

6. "We were best friends for a couple of years before we dated. I thought he was decent looking. Handsome. Above average. But I wasn’t like, 'Oh my god, take me now'. Eventually he convinced me to go on a date with him. He was by far the sweetest person I had ever met. He was the best person. Always kind, considerate, funny. We have been together almost four years, engaged for a little over one. He’s so damn attractive to me now. I can’t ever remember a time where I did not want to immediately jump him." [via]

7. "I'm planning on spending my whole life with him. We started out as friends, and he is nowhere near what I used to think my 'type' was. He asked me out when we first met, and I turned him down (with the excuse being that we are both in first year of uni, and I don't want a relationship). He took it on the chin and we formed a great friendship. He was funny, kind, loving, a great listener, intelligent and the more I got to know him he became more physically attractive to me even though he didn't actually change anything about his looks. We became FWB for a little while, until we both realised that we want to be exclusive.

"I think that even though the initial attraction wasn't there, it's % there now after getting to know him. I'm a believer that people with an ugly personality will look uglier, and people with a beautiful personality will look more beautiful." [via]

8. "I’m engaged to him and we’re buying a house next week. We’re getting married next month. I met him on Tinder. I wasn’t % attracted to him - he has a very handsome face but is shorter and much skinnier than I’d like. It took me a bit to get over it and decide to choose him for all the other amazing reasons we should be together. If I’m being honest, he still isn’t my ideal body type, but he’s my best friend and he’s everything I aspire to be - smart, responsible, ambitious, compassionate, kind, patient, humble, everything." [via]

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My first love went to art school, and early in our courtship he invited me to a student show of his photography. Haunting photographs hung on the walls, a ghostly kind of self-portrait of his changing body. He had started testosterone shortly before we met, and the double-exposed photos seemed to show his body as a specter as the hormones took root.

We lived two states away from each other and on the weekends would meet in the middle in Boston, spending long days together. He wrote me letters nearly every day, and I responded like clockwork. His love letters landed like a blow, knocking the wind out of me. I wrote back on thick paper, sometimes sprayed with perfume. He put the letters up around his bedroom mirror. You say such nice things about me. I figure if I keep looking at them, I’ll start to believe it.

Over time our Boston rendezvous turned into weekends at his apartment. We would lie together in his tiny bed and daydream of my postgraduation move to Boston. I started researching jobs, and he started looking for apartments.

But every time I imagined our future, I couldn’t imagine myself. This beautiful life belonged to someone else, and he deserved someone better. Someone easier, prettier, cooler, and, of course, someone thinner.

I have always been fat.

Not chubby or fluffy or husky or curvy — fat. As I write this, I weigh pounds and wear a women’s size My body mass index (BMI) describes my body as “super morbidly obese” or “extremely obese.” Although my body is not the fattest in existence, it is the fattest the BMI can fathom. Three years ago, I weighed just over pounds and wore a size 30 or 32, depending on the cut of the clothing. At my high school graduation, I wore a red wrap top in the highest size I could find at the time—a women’s

For me, the size of my body is a simple fact. I do not struggle with self-esteem or negative body image. I do not lie awake at night, longing for a thinner body or some life that lies pounds out of reach. For me, my body isn’t good or bad; it just is.

But I had never seen a fat woman in love — not in life, not in the media. I had never seen fat women who dated. I had never seen fat women who asserted themselves, whose partners respected them. Because this was uncharted territory, I assumed it was also unexplored. My risk-taking resolution ebbed from my broad, soft body. How could he love me if it meant loving this?

Despite having what was described as a “very pretty face,” I was constantly reminded that my body was impossible to want. We were dating at the height of popularity of sites like Hot or Notand TV shows like The Swan. Everywhere I looked, bodies were openly critiqued and ranked, and mine steadily landed near the bottom of the scale — 2, 3, 4. His thinness alone earned him a much higher standing. In the cruel calculus of dating and relationships, our numbers didn’t match.

But it wasn’t just him. I had learned that I was undesirable to almost everyone. For years, my body took center stage in my dating life. Dates constantly commented on my size, a knee-jerk reaction to their discomfort with their own desire. Over time, I came to experience any attraction as untrustworthy, as if danger lurked nearby. In retrospect, I worried for my bodily safety, as if only violence could develop an appetite for a body as soft as mine. And I worried that I would become a sexual curio, more novel than loved.

Desire for a body like mine meant my partners were irrational, stupid, or resigned to settling for less than they wanted. In the years since my first breakup, I had struggled to accept interest where I found it. No matter how a potential partner looked, no matter how enthusiastic they were, I couldn’t trust their attraction. I shrank from their touch, recoiling from their hands like hot iron, believing their interest to be impossible or pathological. Any intimacy required vulnerability, and vulnerability inevitably led back to humiliation.

This is among the greatest triumphs of anti-fatness: It stops us before we start. Its greatest victory isn’t diet industry sales or lives postponed just until I lose a few more pounds. It’s the belief that our bodies make us so worthless that we aren’t deserving of love, or even touch.

As these little fissures opened into wounds, I dressed them by retelling the story of our relationship. It had always been impossible, too beautiful and tender to be true. Maybe he had taken pity on me, doing a charitable deed by showing affection to a pitiable fat girl. I told myself he didn’t want to be with me. I told myself he was too gentle to do what he knew needed to be done and dump me. I told myself the best thing I could do for him was leave. So I did.

I didn’t know how to be loved. I couldn’t see it happening. So I broke both of our hearts.

Later in my 20s, after briefly dating a friend of a friend, I decided to return to dating apps. I was on Bumble for less than a day when I matched with someone. I sent him a message — just a waving-hand emoji, to see how he’d respond. This was the informal first step of my screening process. He didn’t make it to the second.

I said hello. He said: I love my women fat. Big girl usually means a big mouth too. Even a nice handjob is better when there’s a chubby hand doing the work lol. Usually bigger girls are better at pleasing their men though.

Welcome to dating apps.

Like any woman, I’d come to expect explicit photos, unwanted advances, and, when I dared decline, epithets. But I also faced messages like these, tinged with entitlement to my fat body — a body that they expected was theirs for the taking simply because of the size of it. In their eyes, I wasn’t a new land to conquer. No, I would go willingly, grateful for their conquest.

But more than that, this message mirrored so many experiences I’d had before. It echoed fraternity brothers’ “hogging” competitions to bed fat women, their “pig roasts” to see who could sleep with the fattest woman, the endless barrage of fat jokes on TV. It echoed the man in a bar who asked me for my number, face kind and expectant, before retreating to his friends to report back on their dare: He’d gotten the fattest girl’s number. It echoed the formerly fat date who’d complimented me on my confidence, told me he “used to be like that, until I realized I wanted anyone to fuck me ever,” then asked me back to his place. It echoed the concerns from family and friends, dangling the promise of a loving, healthy relationship at a lower weight: I just want you to find someone.

Then, on top of all that, messages like these. Messages that received my body like tissue: plentiful, accessible, disposable, trash. Fat people aren’t the only ones who live with the repercussions of anti-fatness in our relationships. Those messages also land hard with people who date us, love us, marry us, sleep with us. They get trapped, too. After all, in our cultural scripts, a fat partner is a failure at best, a shameful, pathological fetish at worst. Desiring fat people is something deviant to be hidden, to find shame in, to closet.

But the data and research around sexuality paint a wholly different picture. In A Billion Wicked Thoughts, computational neuroscientistsOgi Ogas and Sai Gaddam analyzed history’s largest data bank on pornography viewers. They found that regardless of gender and sexual orientation, porn searches for fat bodies significantly outpaced searches for thin bodies. In fact, fat porn was the 16th most popular category, outranking categories like “anal sex” (18), “group sex” (24), “fellatio” (28), and “skinny” (30).

“For every search for a ‘skinny’ girl,” they wrote, “there are almost three searches for a ‘fat’ girl.”

Despite being surrounded by women of all sizes, viewers opted instead to drive their desire into safe, siloed, and one-sided experiences, away from the prying eyes of the world around them.

While Ogas and Gaddam’s research speaks only to sexual desire (not romantic attraction or aspirations), it certainly indicates that our cultural scripts around size and desire — that is, that thin people are inherently desirable and fat people are categorically undesirable — are rooted more in perception than in research. The findings in A Billion Wicked Thoughts point to the idea that fat bodies may be among the most widely desired, but that desire may be repressed, possibly due to pervasive stigma.

Many men who are attracted to fat women find ways to express that desire while sheltering themselves from judgment and stigma including secret sexual relationships with fat women, too afraid or disgusted to elevate those encounters to full-fledged relationships. In “Secret Relationships With Fat Women,” Virgie Tovar recounted the patterns of one such relationship of her own. “Everything was intimate and magical when we were alone, and then all of a sudden it would stop being that. I would go from being a charmingly eccentric bohemian to being a monstrously crass bother.”

When attraction to fat people is discussed, fetishism is never far behind. Fetishism isn’t in itself necessarily pathological; fetishes can be as simple as consensual kinks, particularly intense attractions, or simple preferences. But when fetishism is brought up with respect to fat attraction, it gathers like a storm cloud.

To be clear, there are attractions to fatness that take such specific forms that they are undeniably fetishistic. Feeders, for example, long to feed their “feedees,” deriving pleasure from watching their fat partner eat and, in some cases, from watching them gain more and more weight. Squash fetishes, on the other hand, indicate a desire to be sat on or pinned beneath their partner’s body.

Some fat people happily engage with these fetishes and find fulfillment (or paid work) in their role. Some do not. But many fat people have felt fetishism thrust upon them without their consent.

Fat fetishism has deep roots for many fat people, especially fat women. For some, size, desire, shame, and sex are a rat’s nest, hopelessly entangled. People who internalize anti-fat stereotypes — including the pervasive cultural belief that fat people are categorically unattractive or unlovable — are more likely to binge eat, as are survivors of sexual assault. Fat acceptance spaces frequently include heartbreaking stories of people whose partners kept their relationships secret. Worse still, some tell stories about working up the courage to share their experiences of sexual assault only to be categorically disbelieved. Given the pervasiveness of their experiences, is it any wonder that some fat people come to experience anyone else’s desire for them as predatory?

Of course, not all fat people have lived these sex and relationship horror stories. But many of us have become so acculturated to them that we come to describe the vast majority of fat attraction as fat fetishism. When fat sex and dating are discussed, there’s rarely room for simple attraction. But thin people are frequently attracted to other thin people without garnering suspicion of fetishism. They may find themselves drawn to brown-haired people, muscle-bound bodies, or tall partners. They can speak freely of the physical characteristics they like best: chiseled jawlines, long hair, slim legs. In the world of thin people, these are types, a physical attraction so universal that it is neutral.

Everyone, we are told, has a type. But if a thin person is reliably attracted to fat people, that type curdles and becomes something less trustworthy: a fetish. Fat people are so categorically undesirable, we’re told, that any attraction to us must speak to a darker urge or some unchecked appetite.

I reject the notion that fat attraction is necessarily a fetish: something deviant, tawdry, vulgar, or dangerous. I choose to believe that my body is worthy of love — the electric warmth of real, full love. In many ways, it’s not that simple. But in some ways, it is. I choose to believe that I am lovable, as is my body, just as both are today.

I believe that I deserve to be loved in my body, not in spite of it. My body is not an inconvenience, a shameful fact, or an unfortunate truth. Desiring my body is not a pathological act. And I’m not alone. Despite the never-ending headwinds, fat people around the world find and forge the relationships they want. There is no road map, so we become cartographers, charting some new land for ourselves.

We live extraordinary lives, beloved by our families, partners, communities. Fat people fall wildly in love. Fat people get married. Fat people have phenomenal sex. Fat people are impossibly happy. Those fat people live in defiance of the expectations set forth for them. Their fat lives are glorious and beautiful things, vibrant and beyond the reach of what the rest of us have been trained to imagine. Let’s imagine more.

Aubrey Gordon wrote under the pseudonym Your Fat Friend. Her work has also been featured in Self, Health magazine, and Gay Mag, among others. This essay has been excerpted from her new book, What We Don’t Talk About When We Talk About Fat, reprinted with permission from Beacon Press.

Term in popular psychology

For other uses, see Nice Guy (disambiguation).

"Nice guy" is an informal term, commonly used with either a literal or a sarcastic meaning, for a man (often a young adult).

In the literal sense, the term describes a man who is agreeable, gentle, compassionate, sensitive and vulnerable.^[1] The term is used both positively and negatively.^[2] When used positively, and particularly when used as a preference or description by someone else, it is intended to imply a man who puts the needs of others before his own, avoids confrontations, does favors, provides emotional support, tries to stay out of trouble, and generally acts nicely towards others.^[3] In the context of a relationship, it may also refer to traits of honesty, loyalty, romanticism, courtesy, and respect.

When used negatively, a nice guy implies a man who is unassertive or otherwise "non-masculine". The opposite of a genuine "nice guy" is commonly described as a "jerk", a term for a mean, selfish and uncaring person. A man is labeled a “jerk” on how he treats his partner, seen as the extreme case where he would not have a sensitive or kind side and is seen as a “macho man” and insensitive type.^[4]

However, the term is also often used sarcastically, particularly in the context of dating,^[1] to describe someone who believes himself to possess genuine "nice guy" characteristics, even though he actually does not, and who uses acts of friendship and basic social etiquette with the ulterior aim of progressing to a romantic or sexual relationship.^[5][6]

There is also a new construct that is where this is known as the "Nice Guy Syndrome". This is when these men who act nice, gentle, and respectful expect that they are entitled to women because they are the "nice guy." These nice deeds are performed by these "nice guys" in an attempt to please women into a relationship.

Research on female preferences[edit]

"Nice guy" construct[edit]

In their qualitative analysis, Herold and Milhausen^[7] found that women associate different qualities with the "nice guy" label: "Some women offered flattering interpretations of the 'nice guy', characterizing him as committed, caring, and respectful of women. Some women, however, emphasized more negative aspects, considering the 'nice guy' to be boring, lacking confidence, and unattractive."^[8] The "bad boys" were also divided into two categories, "as either confident, attractive, sexy, and exciting or as manipulative, unfaithful, disrespectful of women, and interested only in sex." This distinction helped further the understanding of why women might prefer "nice guys" or "not-nice guys". Women were also asked for their preferences and what values they may look in each relationship, such as attractiveness, and sexual desires in short- and long-term relationships.^{[further explanation needed][8]}

Nice guys are sometimes suggested to be overbearing or lacking in vision and ambitions; these opinions suggest self-confidence as a key point and area of improvement. Often these ideas and views of a certain nice guy can contribute to a woman's willingness to pursue a romantic relationship.^[9]

Researchers have therefore operationalized the "nice guy" and "jerk" constructs in different ways, some of which are outlined below.^[1]

Results of research[edit]

Various studies explicitly try to elucidate the success, or lack thereof, of "nice guys" with women.^{[1][7][10][11]}

Jensen-Campbell et al. () operationalized "niceness" as prosocial behavior, which included agreeableness and altruism. They found that female attraction was a result of an interaction of both dominance and prosocial tendency. They suggest that altruism may be attractive to women when it is perceived as a form of agentic behavior.

Nice guys are usually seen as twice as attractive as men who present themselves as neutral, and eight times more attractive than the "jerks" in a dating profile. Social dominance enhances female attraction to a male who has shown in the relationship niceness, traits of kindness and warmth stated by women looking for long-term relationships, and less status and physical attractiveness.^[12]

Sprecher and Regan () found kindness, warmth, expressiveness, openness, and humor as desirable traits of a long-term partner. Social status indicators, such as future earning potential (wealth), were not viewed as more desirable traits when compared to the previous traits. Participants suggested they wanted more humor, expressiveness and warmth from their partner than is expressed with their friends.^[13]

Herold and Milhausen () found that women are more likely to report wanting a nice guy but do not choose them in their real dating life. They also found that women perceived nice guys as having less sexual partners in general but perceived them as more eligible for dating. Women claim to prefer to date people who have less sexual experience. A third of the women, however, had reported dating multiple partners that had had more sexual experience than them. There was a dichotomist relationship between a woman’s perception of what a nice guy is and does and whether or not he “finishes last,” as the common adage states. If a woman believes that a nice guy is kind and respectful to women then they will say that he does not finish last. If the nice guy is perceived as being passive or unattractive then they will say that he does finish last.^[14]

Urbaniak and Killman () constructed vignettes of four hypothetical dating show contestants: "Nice Todd" vs. "Neutral Todd" vs. "Jerk Todd" vs. "Michael", who was created to be a control. "Nice Todd" described a "real man" as "in touch with his feelings," kind and attentive, non-macho, and interested in putting his partner's pleasure first. "Neutral Todd" described a "real man" as someone who "knows what he wants and knows how to get it," and who is good to the woman he loves. "Jerk Todd" described a "real man" as someone who "knows what he wants and knows how to get it," who keeps everyone else on their toes, and avoids "touch-feely" stuff. "Michael" described a "real man" as relaxed and positive. In two studies, Urbaniak and Kilmann found that women claimed to prefer "Nice Todd" over "Neutral Todd" and "Jerk Todd," relative to "Michael" even at differing levels of physical attractiveness. They also found that for purely sexual relationships, "niceness appeared relatively less influential than physical attractiveness." After acknowledging that women's preference for "niceness" could be inflated by the social desirability bias, especially due to their use of verbal scripts, they conclude that "our overall results did not favor the nice guy stereotype; instead, our results suggested that women’s attitudes (as expressed in previous studies) do, in fact, generally match their behaviors. Niceness was a robust, positive factor in women’s choices of a dating partner and in how desirable they rated Todd."^[15]

McDaniel () constructed vignettes of dates with a stereotypical "nice guy" vs. a stereotypical "fun/sexy guy," and attempted to make them both sound positive. Questionnaires were offered to a group of women in which they were presented with two scenarios, one involving the nice guy and the other involving the fun/sexy guy. The two variables being measured were the women’s likelihood of picking a nice guy versus a fun/sexy guy, and their reasons for so doing. It was found that there was a stronger correlation between a woman’s perceived positive traits in the man than in her goals for the dating relationship, both of which were measured in the questionnaire. The two traits that predicted likelihood for wanting to pursue a relationship were physical attractiveness and niceness/sweetness. However, if a man was perceived to be nice/sweet but was not found physically attractive it hurt his chances of a romantic relationship even more. In the study there was no way to directly measure the physical attractiveness of the men with whom they were presented; they only had information with which they could draw conclusions. Because they could not see the men and only had information to use, McDaniel found that this may suggest that women romanticize the idea of a nice/sweet guy, but often do not choose him because in reality he is likely to be less attractive than a so-called “jerk.”^[16]

A study at New Mexico State University in Las Cruces showed that "nice guys" report having significantly fewer sexual partners than "bad boys."^[17][18]

Barclay () found that when all other factors are held constant, guys who perform generous acts are rated as more desirable for dates and long-term relationships than non-generous guys. This study used a series of matched descriptions where each male was presented in a generous or a control version which differed only in whether the man tended to help others. The author suggests that niceness itself is desirable to women, but tends to be used by men who are less attractive in other domains, and this is what creates the appearance of "nice guys finish last."^[19]

Judge et al () concluded that "Nice guys do not necessarily finish last, but they do finish a distant second in terms of earnings yet, seen from the perspective of gender equity, even the nice guys seem to be making out quite well relative to either agreeable or disagreeable women."^[20]

Sadalla, Kenrick, and Vershure () found that women were sexually attracted to dominance in men (though dominance did not make men likable to women), and that dominance in women had no effect on men. This may further suggest that the nice guy myth is one of sexual preference, and not of dating preference. Women appear in practically all studies to be accepting of romantic relationships with nice guys but are less likely to consider them casual sexual partners.

^[21]

Bogaert and Fisher () studied the relationships between the personalities of university men and their number of sexual partners. They found a correlation between a man's number of sexual partners, and the traits of sensation-seeking, hypermasculinity, physical attractiveness, and testosterone levels. They also discovered a correlation between maximum monthly number of partners, and the traits of dominance and psychoticism. Bogaert and Fisher suggest that an underlying construct labelled "disinhibition" could be used to explain most of these differences. They suggest that disinhibition would correlate negatively with "agreeableness" and "conscientiousness" from the Big Five personality model.^[22]

Botwin, Buss and Shackelford () found that women had a higher preference for surgency and dominance in their mates than men did, in a study of dating couples and newlyweds.^[23]

Ahmetoglu and Swami () found that men were rated to be more attractive if women perceived them as more dominant, represented in the study by open body posture and gesticulation.^[24]

Other viewpoints[edit]

The "nice guys finish last" view[edit]

A common aphorism is that "nice guys finish last."^[10] The phrase is based on a quote by Brooklyn Dodgers manager Leo Durocher in , which was then condensed by journalists.^[25][26] The original quote by Durocher was, "The nice guys are all over there, in seventh place" (6 July ),^[25][27] when referring to the New York Giants, who were the Dodger's rivals. The seventh place that Durocher was referring to was actually second-to-last place in the National League; many variants appear in later works,^[28] including Durocher's autobiography, Nice Guys Finish Last.^[29] The Giants would finish the season in the National League cellar, while Durocher's Dodgers would end up in second place.^[30]

Simplistically, the term "nice guy" could be an adjectival phrase describing what appears to be a friendly, kind, or courteous man. The "nice guys finish last" phrase is also said to be coined by American biologist Garrett Hardin to sum up the selfish gene theory of life and evolution. This was disputed by Richard Dawkins, who wrote the book The Selfish Gene. Dawkins was misinterpreted by many as confirming the "nice guy finishing last" view, but refuted the claims in the BBC documentary Nice Guys Finish First.^[31]

The "nice guys finish last" view is that there is a discrepancy between women's stated preferences and their actual choices in men. In other words, women say that they want nice guys, but really go for men who are "jerks" or "bad boys" in the end. This may lead to men’s discouragement in attempting to have casual sexual relationships with women and also in their pursuit of romantic relationships. Stephan Desrochers claims, in a article in the journal Sex Roles, that many "sensitive" men, based on their own personal experience, do not believe women actually want "nice guys." Because of this belief, men are less likely to pursue a romantic relationship with a woman if they perceive themselves as nice guys. If they do not believe that women will be sexually or romantically attracted to them because of their more feminine or “nice” traits, then they will likely be concerned, possibly another trait that leads to women’s preference for jerks. In other words, men who are more confident and worry less if they are being perceived a certain way are more likely to have a romantic or casual sexual relationship with a woman of their choice.^[32]

According to McDaniel, popular culture and dating advice "suggest that women claim they want a 'nice guy' because they believe that is what is expected of them when, in reality, they want the so-called 'challenge' that comes with dating a not-so-nice guy."^[1]

Urbaniak & Kilmann write that:

"Although women often portray themselves as wanting to date kind, sensitive, and emotionally expressive men, the nice guy stereotype contends that, when actually presented with a choice between such a 'nice guy' and an unkind, insensitive, emotionally-closed, 'macho man' or 'jerk,' they invariably reject the nice guy in favor of his 'so-called' macho competitor."^[10]

Another perspective is that women do want "nice guys," at least when they are looking for a romantic relationship. Desrochers () suggests that "it still seems popular to believe that women in contemporary America prefer men who are 'sensitive,' or have feminine personality traits." In a study done by Ahmetoglu and Swami () it was found that women were more sexually attracted to men who had more dominant behaviors compared to men who were more closed off.^[33]

Herold and Milhausen^[34] found that 56% of university women claimed to agree with the statement: "You may have heard the expression, 'Nice guys finish last.' In terms of dating, and sex, do you think women are less likely to have sex with men who are 'nice' than men who are 'not nice'?" A third view is that while "nice guys" may not be as successful at attracting women sexually, they may be sought after by women looking for long-term romantic relationships (however, "nice guys need not lose all hope, with studies showing that while women like 'bad boys' for flings, they tend to settle down with more caring types." The "bad boys" tending to exhibit the dark triad, i.e., "the self-obsession of narcissism, the impulsive, thrill-seeking and callous behavior of the psychopath and the deceitful and exploitative nature of Machiavellianism." It is a possibility that women leave to escape their circumstances of abuse, disease, or pregnancy to seek a chance with the nice guy (they rejected previously), afterwards.^[35]

Herold and Milhausen claim: "While 'nice guys' may not be competitive in terms of numbers of sexual partners, they tend to be more successful with respect to longer-term, committed relationships." This is due to the ‘nice guys’ generally denote an interest in long-term relationships rather than the concept that a ‘jerk’ is only around to have sexual partners and will move on sooner for their lack of interest in long-term relationships.^[34]

Another study indicates that "for brief affairs, women tend to prefer a dominating, powerful and promiscuous man." Further evidence appears in a study in Prague: "Since women can always get a man for a one-night stand, they gain an advantage if they find partners for child-rearing."^[36]

"Nice Guy" syndrome[edit]

The terms "Nice Guy" and "nice guy syndrome" can be used sarcastically to describe a man who views himself as a prototypical "nice guy," but whose "nice deeds" are deemed to be solely motivated by a desire to court women. From said courting, the 'nice guy' may hope to form a romantic relationship or may be motivated by a simple desire to increase his sexual activity. The results of failure are often resentment toward women and/or society. The 'nice guy' is commonly said to be put by women "into the friend zone" who do not reciprocate his romantic or sexual interest. These men believe in this motive because of the societal roles that say women belong to them. A reasoning behind this can be because women are sexualized in video games, television, and movies. Third wave feminist interpretations tend to see this resentment as being based upon an assumption by men that they are entitled to sex and are therefore confused when they find that it is not forthcoming despite their supposed 'niceness.'^[37] More male orientated interpretations claim that the resentment is down to the fact that society, and the vast majority of people in spoken conversation, claim to be attracted to traits such as honesty, integrity and kindness, when in reality more superficial considerations trigger attraction. According to this interpretation people who display wealth, good looks, dominance and confidence tend to succeed more in romance than do 'nice guys.' Nice guys are therefore resentful at the inconsistency between what people claim to be attracted to and by how they act in reality.^[38][39] At times, these men are also known by the term "white knight."

In early , the web site Heartless Bitches International (HBI)^[40] published several "rants" on the concept of the Nice Guy. The central theme was that a genuinely nice male is desirable, but that many Nice Guys are insecure men unwilling to articulate their romantic or sexual feelings directly. Instead, they choose to present themselves as their paramour's friend, and hang around, doing nice things for her in hopes that she will pick up on their desire for her. If she fails to read their secret feelings, Nice Guys become embittered and blame her for taking advantage of them and their niceness. The site is particularly critical of what they see as hypocrisy and manipulation on the part of self-professed Nice Guys.^[41][42]

According to journalist Paris Martineau, the incel and red pill movements (part of the anti-feministmanosphere) recruit depressed, frustrated men – who may suffer from "Nice Guy syndrome" – into the alt-right.^[43]

See also[edit]

References[edit]

My first love went to art school, and early in our courtship he invited me to a student show of best mexican dating app photography. Haunting photographs hung on the walls, a ghostly kind of self-portrait of his changing body. He had started testosterone shortly before we met, dating less attractive woman reddit, and the double-exposed photos seemed to show his body as a specter as the hormones took root.

We lived two states away from each other and on the weekends would meet in the middle in Boston, spending long days together. He wrote me letters nearly every day, and I responded like clockwork. His love letters landed like a blow, knocking the wind out of me. I wrote back on thick paper, sometimes sprayed with perfume. He put the letters up around his bedroom mirror. You say such nice things about me. I figure if I keep looking at them, I’ll start to believe it.

Over time our Boston rendezvous turned into weekends at his apartment. We would lie together in his tiny bed and daydream of my postgraduation move to Boston. I started researching super active free dating sites, and he started looking for apartments.

But every time I imagined our future, I couldn’t imagine myself. This beautiful life belonged to someone else, and he deserved someone better. Someone easier, prettier, cooler, and, of course, someone thinner.

I have always been fat.

Not chubby or fluffy or husky or curvy — fat. As I write this, I weigh pounds and wear a women’s size My body mass index (BMI) describes my body as “super morbidly obese” or “extremely obese.” Although my body is not the fattest in existence, it is the fattest the BMI can fathom. Three years ago, I weighed just over pounds and wore a size 30 dating less attractive woman reddit 32, depending on the cut of the clothing. At my female easy dating site without payment school graduation, I wore a red wrap top in the highest size I could find at the time—a women’s

For me, the size of my body is a simple fact. I do not struggle with self-esteem or negative body image. I do not lie awake at night, longing for a thinner body or some life that lies pounds out of reach. For me, my body isn’t good or bad; it just is.

But I had never seen a fat woman in love — not in life, not in the media. I had never seen fat women who dated. I had never seen fat women who asserted themselves, whose partners respected them. Because this was uncharted territory, I assumed it was also unexplored. My risk-taking resolution ebbed from my broad, soft body. How could he love me if it meant loving this?

Despite having what was described as a “very pretty face,” I was constantly reminded that my body was impossible to want. We were dating at the height of popularity of sites like Hot or Notand TV shows like The Swan. Everywhere I looked, bodies were openly critiqued and ranked, and mine steadily landed near the bottom of the scale — 2, 3, 4. His thinness alone earned him a much higher standing. In the cruel calculus of dating and relationships, our numbers didn’t match.

But it wasn’t just him. I had learned that I was undesirable matured dating sites almost everyone, dating less attractive woman reddit. For years, my body took center stage in my dating life. Dates constantly commented on my size, a knee-jerk reaction to their discomfort with their own desire. Over time, I came to experience any attraction as untrustworthy, as if danger lurked nearby. In retrospect, I worried for my bodily safety, as if only violence could develop an appetite for a body as soft as mine. And I worried that I would become a sexual curio, more novel than loved.

Desire for a body like mine meant my partners were irrational, stupid, or resigned to settling for less than they wanted. In the years since my first breakup, I had struggled to accept interest where I found it. No matter how a potential partner looked, no matter how enthusiastic they were, I couldn’t trust their attraction. I shrank from their touch, recoiling from their hands like hot iron, believing their interest to be impossible or pathological. Any intimacy required vulnerability, and vulnerability inevitably led back to humiliation.

This is among the greatest triumphs of anti-fatness: It stops us before we start. Its greatest victory isn’t diet industry sales or lives postponed just until I lose a few more pounds. It’s the belief that our bodies make us so worthless that we aren’t deserving of love, or even touch.

As these little fissures opened into wounds, I dressed them by retelling the story of our relationship. It had always been impossible, too beautiful and tender to be true. Maybe he had taken pity on me, doing a charitable deed by showing affection to a pitiable fat girl. I told myself he didn’t want to be with me. I told myself he was too gentle to do what he knew needed to be done and dump me. I told myself the best thing I could do for him was leave. So I did.

I didn’t know how to be loved. I couldn’t see it happening. So I broke both of our hearts.

Later in my 20s, after briefly dating a friend of a friend, I decided to return to dating apps. I was on Bumble for less than a day when I matched with someone. I sent him a message — just a waving-hand emoji, to see how he’d respond. This was the informal first step of my screening process. He didn’t make it to the second.

I said hello. He said: I love my women fat. Big girl usually means a big mouth too. Even a nice handjob is better when there’s a chubby hand doing the work lol. Usually bigger girls are better at pleasing their men though.

Welcome to dating apps.

Like any woman, I’d come to expect explicit photos, unwanted advances, and, when I dared decline, epithets. But I also faced messages like these, tinged with entitlement to my fat body — a body that they expected was theirs for the taking simply because of the size of it. In their eyes, I wasn’t a new land to conquer. No, I would go willingly, grateful for their conquest.

But more than that, this message mirrored so many experiences I’d had before. It echoed fraternity brothers’ “hogging” competitions to bed fat women, their “pig roasts” to see who could sleep with the fattest woman, the endless barrage of fat jokes on TV. It echoed the man in a bar who asked me for my number, dating less attractive woman reddit, face kind and expectant, before retreating to his friends to report back on their dare: He’d gotten the fattest girl’s number. It echoed the formerly fat date who’d complimented me on my confidence, told me he “used to be like that, until I realized I wanted anyone to fuck me ever,” then asked me back to his place. It echoed the concerns from family and friends, dangling the promise of a loving, healthy relationship at a lower weight: I just want you to find someone.

Then, on top of all that, messages like these. Messages that received my body like tissue: plentiful, accessible, disposable, trash. Fat people aren’t the only ones who live with the repercussions of anti-fatness in our relationships. Those messages also land hard with people who date us, love us, marry us, sleep with us. They get trapped, too. After all, in our cultural scripts, a fat partner is a failure at best, a shameful, pathological fetish at worst. Desiring fat people is something dating less attractive woman reddit to be hidden, to find shame in, to closet.

But the data and research around sexuality paint a wholly different picture. In A Billion Wicked Thoughts, computational neuroscientistsOgi Ogas and Sai Gaddam analyzed history’s largest data bank on pornography viewers. They found that regardless of gender and sexual orientation, porn searches for fat bodies significantly outpaced searches for thin bodies, dating less attractive woman reddit. In fact, fat porn was the 16th most popular category, outranking categories like “anal sex” (18), “group sex” (24), “fellatio” (28), and “skinny” (30).

“For every search for a ‘skinny’ girl,” they wrote, “there are almost three searches for a ‘fat’ girl.”

Despite being surrounded by women of all sizes, dating less attractive woman reddit, viewers opted instead to drive their desire into safe, siloed, and one-sided experiences, away from the prying eyes of the world around them.

While Ogas and Gaddam’s research speaks only to sexual desire (not romantic attraction or aspirations), it certainly indicates that our cultural scripts around size and desire — that is, that thin italian dating sites in italy are inherently desirable and fat people are categorically undesirable — are rooted more in perception than in research. The findings in A Billion Wicked Thoughts point to the idea that fat bodies may be among the most widely desired, but that desire may be repressed, possibly due to pervasive stigma.

Many men who are attracted to fat women find ways to express that desire while sheltering themselves from judgment and stigma including secret sexual relationships with fat women, too afraid or disgusted to elevate those encounters to full-fledged relationships. In “Secret Relationships With Fat Women,” Virgie Tovar recounted the patterns of one such relationship of her own. “Everything was intimate and magical when we were alone, and then all of a sudden it would stop being that. I would go from being a charmingly eccentric bohemian to being a monstrously crass bother.”

When attraction to fat people is discussed, fetishism is never far behind. Fetishism isn’t in itself necessarily pathological; fetishes can be as simple as consensual kinks, particularly intense attractions, or simple preferences. But when fetishism is brought up with respect to fat attraction, it gathers like a storm cloud.

To be clear, there are attractions to fatness that take such specific forms that they are undeniably fetishistic. Feeders, dating less attractive woman reddit, for example, dating less attractive woman reddit, long to feed their “feedees,” deriving pleasure from watching their fat partner eat and, in dating less attractive woman reddit cases, from watching them gain more and more weight. Squash fetishes, on the other hand, indicate a desire to be sat on or pinned beneath their partner’s body.

Some fat people happily engage with these fetishes and find fulfillment (or paid work) in their role. Some do not. But many fat people have felt fetishism thrust upon them without their consent.

Fat fetishism has deep roots for many fat people, especially fat women. For some, size, desire, shame, and sex are a rat’s nest, hopelessly entangled. People who internalize anti-fat stereotypes — including the pervasive cultural belief that fat people are categorically unattractive or unlovable — are more likely to binge eat, as are survivors of sexual assault. Fat acceptance spaces frequently include heartbreaking stories of people whose partners kept their relationships secret. Worse still, some tell stories about working up the courage to share their experiences of sexual assault only to be categorically disbelieved. Given the pervasiveness of their experiences, is it any wonder that some fat people come to experience anyone else’s desire for them as predatory?

Of course, not all fat people have lived these sex and relationship horror stories. But many of us have become so acculturated to them that we come to describe the vast majority of fat attraction as fat fetishism. When fat sex and dating are discussed, there’s rarely room for simple attraction. But thin people are frequently attracted to other thin people without garnering suspicion of fetishism. They may find themselves drawn to brown-haired people, muscle-bound bodies, or tall partners. They can speak freely of the physical characteristics they like best: chiseled jawlines, long hair, slim legs. In the world of thin people, these are types, a physical attraction so universal that it is neutral.

Everyone, best russian dating sites in usa are told, has a type. But if a thin person is reliably attracted to fat people, that type curdles and becomes something less trustworthy: a fetish. Fat people are so categorically undesirable, we’re told, that any attraction to us must speak to a darker urge or some unchecked appetite.

I reject the notion that fat attraction is necessarily a fetish: something deviant, tawdry, vulgar, or dangerous. I choose to believe that dating a desperate girl body is worthy of love — the electric warmth of real, full love. In many ways, it’s not that simple. But in some ways, it is. I choose to believe that I am lovable, as is my body, just as both are today.

I believe that I deserve to be loved in my body, not in spite of it. My body is not an inconvenience, a shameful fact, or an unfortunate truth. Desiring my body is not a pathological act. And I’m not alone. Despite the never-ending headwinds, fat people around the world find and forge the relationships they want. There is no road map, dating less attractive woman reddit, so we become cartographers, charting some new land for ourselves.

We live extraordinary lives, beloved by our families, partners, communities. Fat people fall wildly in love. Fat people get married. Fat people have phenomenal sex. Fat people are impossibly happy. Those fat people live in defiance of the expectations set forth for them. Their fat lives are glorious and beautiful things, vibrant and beyond the reach of what the rest of us have been trained to imagine. Let’s imagine more.

Aubrey Gordon wrote under the pseudonym Your Fat Friend. Her work has also been featured in Self, Health magazine, and Gay Mag, among others. This essay has been excerpted from her new book, What We Don’t Talk About When We Talk About Fat, reprinted with permission from Beacon Press.

Term in popular psychology

For other uses, see Nice Guy (disambiguation).

"Nice guy" is an informal term, commonly used with either a literal or a sarcastic meaning, for a man (often a young adult).

In the literal sense, the term describes a man who is agreeable, gentle, compassionate, sensitive and vulnerable.^[1] Dating questions to ask a black man term is used both positively and negatively.^[2] When used positively, and particularly when used as a preference or description by someone else, it is intended to imply a man who puts the needs of others before his own, avoids confrontations, does favors, provides emotional support, tries to stay out of trouble, and generally acts nicely towards others.^[3] In the context of a relationship, it may also refer to traits of honesty, loyalty, romanticism, courtesy, and respect.

When used negatively, a nice guy implies a man who is unassertive or otherwise "non-masculine". The opposite of a genuine "nice guy" is commonly described as a "jerk", a term for a mean, selfish and uncaring person. A man is labeled a “jerk” on how he treats his partner, seen as the extreme case where he would not have a sensitive or kind side and is seen as a “macho man” and insensitive type.^[4]

However, the term is also often used sarcastically, particularly in the context of dating,^[1] to describe someone who believes himself to possess genuine "nice guy" characteristics, even though he actually does not, and who uses acts of friendship and basic social etiquette with the ulterior aim of progressing to a romantic or sexual relationship.^[5][6]

There is also a new construct that is where this is known as the "Nice Guy Syndrome". This is when these men who act nice, gentle, and respectful expect that they are entitled to women because they are the best dating website for people over 50 christian guy." These nice deeds are performed by these "nice guys" in an attempt to please women into a relationship.

Research on female preferences[edit]

"Nice guy" construct[edit]

In their qualitative analysis, Herold and Milhausen^[7] found that women associate different qualities with the "nice guy" label: "Some women offered flattering interpretations of the 'nice guy', characterizing him as committed, caring, and respectful of women. Some women, however, emphasized more negative aspects, considering the 'nice guy' to be boring, lacking confidence, and unattractive."^[8] The "bad boys" were also divided into two categories, "as either confident, attractive, sexy, and dating less attractive woman reddit or as manipulative, unfaithful, disrespectful of women, and interested only in sex." This distinction helped further the understanding of why women might prefer "nice guys" or "not-nice guys". Women were also asked for their preferences and what values they may look in each relationship, such as attractiveness, and sexual desires in short- and long-term relationships.^{[further explanation needed][8]}

Nice guys are sometimes suggested to be overbearing or lacking in vision and ambitions; these opinions suggest self-confidence as a key point and area of improvement. Often these ideas and views of a certain nice guy can contribute to a woman's willingness to online dating follow up message example a romantic relationship.^[9]

Researchers have therefore operationalized the "nice guy" and "jerk" constructs in different ways, some of which are outlined below.^[1]

Results of research[edit]

Various studies explicitly try to elucidate the success, or lack thereof, of "nice guys" with women.^{[1][7][10][11]}

Jensen-Campbell et al. () operationalized "niceness" as prosocial behavior, which included agreeableness and altruism. They found that female attraction was a result of an interaction of both dominance and prosocial tendency. They suggest that altruism may dating strategies for guys attractive to women when it is perceived as a form of agentic behavior.

Nice guys are usually seen as twice as attractive as men who present themselves as neutral, and eight times more attractive than the "jerks" in a dating profile. Social dominance enhances female attraction to a male who has shown in the relationship niceness, traits of kindness and warmth stated by women looking for long-term relationships, and less status and physical attractiveness.^[12]

Sprecher and Regan () found kindness, warmth, expressiveness, openness, and humor as desirable traits of a long-term partner. Social status indicators, such as future earning potential (wealth), were not viewed as more desirable traits when compared to the previous traits. Participants suggested they wanted more humor, expressiveness and warmth from their partner than is expressed with their friends.^[13]

Herold and Milhausen () found that women are more likely to report wanting a nice guy but do not choose them in their real dating life. They also found that women perceived nice guys as having less sexual partners in general but perceived them as more eligible for dating. Women claim to prefer to date people who have less sexual experience. A third of the women, however, had reported dating multiple partners that had had more sexual experience than them. There was a dichotomist relationship between a woman’s perception of what a nice guy is and does and whether or not he “finishes last,” as the common adage states. If a woman believes that a nice guy is kind and respectful to women then they will say that he does not finish last. If the nice guy is perceived as being passive or unattractive then they will say that he does finish last.^[14]

Urbaniak and Killman () constructed vignettes of four hypothetical dating show contestants: "Nice Todd" vs. "Neutral Todd" vs. "Jerk Todd" vs. "Michael", who was created to be a control. "Nice Todd" described dating less attractive woman reddit "real man" as "in touch with his feelings," kind and attentive, non-macho, and interested in putting his partner's pleasure first. "Neutral Todd" described a "real man" as someone who "knows what he wants and knows how to get it," and who is good to the woman he loves. "Jerk Todd" described a "real man" as someone who "knows what he wants and knows how to get it," who keeps everyone else on their toes, and avoids "touch-feely" stuff. "Michael" described a "real man" as relaxed and positive. In two studies, Urbaniak and Kilmann found that women claimed to prefer "Nice Todd" over "Neutral Todd" and "Jerk Todd," relative to "Michael" even at differing levels of physical attractiveness. They also found that for purely sexual relationships, "niceness appeared relatively less influential than physical attractiveness." After acknowledging that women's preference for "niceness" could be inflated by the social desirability bias, especially due to their use of verbal scripts, they conclude that "our overall results did not favor the nice guy stereotype; instead, our results suggested that women’s attitudes (as expressed in previous studies) do, in fact, generally match their behaviors. Niceness was a robust, positive factor in women’s choices of a dating partner and in how desirable they rated Todd."^[15]

McDaniel () constructed vignettes of dates with a stereotypical "nice guy" vs. a stereotypical "fun/sexy guy," and attempted to make them both sound positive. Questionnaires were offered to a group of women in which they were presented with two scenarios, one involving the nice guy and the other involving the fun/sexy guy. The two variables being measured were the women’s likelihood of picking a nice guy versus a fun/sexy guy, and their reasons for so doing. It was found that there was a stronger correlation between a woman’s perceived positive traits in the man than in her goals for the dating relationship, both of which were measured in the questionnaire, dating less attractive woman reddit. The two traits that predicted likelihood for wanting to pursue a relationship were physical attractiveness and niceness/sweetness. However, dating less attractive woman reddit, if a man articles on online dating perceived to be nice/sweet but was not found physically attractive it hurt his chances of a romantic relationship even more. In the study there was no way to directly measure the physical attractiveness of the men with whom they were presented; they only had information with which they could draw conclusions. Because they could not see the men and only had information to use, McDaniel found that this may suggest that women romanticize the idea of a nice/sweet guy, but often do not choose him because in reality he is likely to be less attractive than a so-called “jerk.”^[16]

A study at New Mexico State University in Las Cruces showed that "nice guys" report having significantly fewer sexual partners than "bad boys."^[17][18]

Barclay () found that when all other factors are held constant, guys who perform generous acts are rated as more desirable for dates and long-term relationships than non-generous guys, dating less attractive woman reddit. This study used a series of matched descriptions where each male was presented in a generous or a control version which differed only in whether the man tended to help others. The author suggests that niceness itself is desirable to women, but tends to be used by men who are less attractive in other domains, and this is what creates the appearance of "nice guys finish last."^[19]

Judge et al () concluded that "Nice guys do not necessarily finish last, but they do finish a distant second in terms of earnings yet, seen from the perspective of gender equity, even the nice guys seem to be making out quite well relative to either agreeable or disagreeable women."^[20]

Sadalla, Kenrick, and Vershure () found that women were sexually attracted to dominance in men (though dominance did not make men likable to women), and that dominance in women had no effect on men. This may further suggest that the nice guy myth is one of sexual preference, and not of dating preference. Women appear in practically all studies to be accepting of romantic relationships with nice guys but are less likely to consider them casual sexual partners.

^[21]

Bogaert and Fisher () studied the relationships dating less attractive woman reddit the personalities of university men and their number of sexual partners. They found a correlation between a man's number of sexual partners, and the traits of sensation-seeking, hypermasculinity, physical attractiveness, and testosterone levels. They also discovered a correlation between maximum monthly number of partners, and the traits of dominance and psychoticism. Bogaert and Fisher suggest that an underlying construct labelled "disinhibition" could be used to explain most of these differences. They suggest that disinhibition would correlate negatively with "agreeableness" and "conscientiousness" from the Big Five personality model.^[22]

Botwin, Buss and Shackelford () found that women had a higher preference for surgency and dominance in their mates than men did, in a study of dating couples and newlyweds.^[23]

Ahmetoglu and Swami () found that men were rated to be more attractive if women perceived them as more dominant, represented in the study by open body posture and gesticulation.^[24]

Other viewpoints[edit]

The "nice guys finish last" view[edit]

A common aphorism is that "nice guys finish last."^[10] The phrase is based on a quote by Brooklyn Dodgers manager Leo Durocher inwhich was then condensed by journalists.^[25][26] The original quote by Dating less attractive woman reddit was, "The nice guys are all over there, in seventh place" (6 July ),^[25][27] when referring to the New York Giants, who were the Dodger's rivals. The seventh place that Durocher was referring to was actually second-to-last place in the National League; many variants appear in later works,^[28] including Durocher's autobiography, Nice Guys Finish Last.^[29] The Giants would finish the season in the National League cellar, while Durocher's Dodgers would end up in second place.^[30]

Simplistically, the term "nice guy" could be an adjectival phrase describing what appears to be a friendly, kind, or courteous man. The "nice guys finish last" phrase is also said to be coined by American biologist Garrett Hardin to sum up the selfish gene theory of life and evolution, dating less attractive woman reddit. This was disputed by Richard Dawkins, who wrote the book The Selfish Gene. Dawkins was misinterpreted by many as confirming the "nice guy finishing last" view, but refuted the claims in the BBC documentary Nice Guys Finish First.^[31]

The "nice guys finish last" view is that there is a discrepancy between women's stated preferences and their actual choices in men. In other words, women say that they want nice guys, but really go for men who are "jerks" or "bad boys" in the end. This may lead to men’s discouragement in attempting to have casual sexual relationships with women and also in their pursuit of romantic relationships. Stephan Desrochers claims, in a article in the journal Sex Roles, that many brett young dating men, dating less attractive woman reddit, based on their own personal experience, do not believe women actually want "nice guys." Because of this belief, men are less likely to pursue a romantic relationship with a woman if they perceive themselves as nice guys. If they do not believe that women will be sexually or romantically attracted to them because of their more feminine or “nice” traits, then they will likely be concerned, possibly another trait that leads to women’s preference for jerks. In other words, men who are more confident and worry less if they are being perceived a certain way are more likely to have a romantic or casual sexual relationship with a woman of their choice.^[32]

According to McDaniel, popular culture and dating advice "suggest that women claim they want a 'nice guy' because they believe that is what is expected of them when, in reality, they want the so-called 'challenge' that comes with dating a not-so-nice guy."^[1]

Urbaniak & Kilmann write that:

"Although women often portray themselves as wanting to date kind, sensitive, and emotionally expressive men, the nice guy stereotype contends that, when actually presented with a choice between such a 'nice guy' and an unkind, insensitive, emotionally-closed, 'macho man' or 'jerk,' they invariably reject the nice guy in favor of his 'so-called' macho competitor."^[10]

Another perspective is that women do want "nice guys," at least when they are looking for a romantic relationship. Desrochers () suggests that "it still seems popular to believe that women in contemporary America prefer men who dating less attractive woman reddit 'sensitive,' or have feminine personality traits." In a study done by Ahmetoglu and Swami () dating less attractive woman reddit was found that women were more sexually attracted to men who had more dominant behaviors compared to men who were more closed off.^[33]

Herold and Milhausen^[34] found that 56% of university women claimed to agree with the statement: "You may have heard the expression, 'Nice guys finish last.' In terms of dating, and sex, do you think women are less likely to have sex with men who are 'nice' than men who are 'not nice'?" A third view is that while "nice guys" may not be as successful at attracting women sexually, they may be sought after by women looking for long-term romantic relationships (however, "nice guys need not lose all hope, with studies showing that while women like 'bad boys' for flings, they tend to settle down with more caring types." The "bad boys" tending to exhibit the dark triad, i.e., "the self-obsession of narcissism, dating less attractive woman reddit impulsive, dating less attractive woman reddit, thrill-seeking and callous behavior of the psychopath and the deceitful and exploitative nature of Machiavellianism." It is a possibility that women leave to escape their circumstances of abuse, disease, or pregnancy to seek a chance with the nice guy (they rejected previously), afterwards.^[35]

Herold and Milhausen claim: "While 'nice guys' may not be competitive in terms of numbers of sexual partners, they tend to be more successful with respect to longer-term, committed relationships." This is due to the ‘nice guys’ generally denote an interest in long-term relationships rather than the concept that a ‘jerk’ is only around to have sexual partners and will move on sooner for their lack of interest in long-term relationships.^[34]

Another study indicates that "for brief affairs, women tend to prefer a dominating, powerful and promiscuous man." Further dating less attractive woman reddit appears in a study in Prague: "Since women can always get a man for a one-night stand, they gain an advantage if they find partners for child-rearing."^[36]

"Nice Guy" syndrome[edit]

The terms "Nice Guy" and "nice guy syndrome" can be used sarcastically to describe a man who views himself as a prototypical "nice guy," but whose "nice deeds" are deemed to be solely motivated by a desire to court women. From said courting, dating less attractive woman reddit, the 'nice guy' may hope to form a romantic relationship or may be motivated by a simple desire to increase his sexual activity. The results of failure are often resentment toward women and/or society. The 'nice guy' is commonly said to be put by women "into the friend zone" who do not reciprocate his romantic or sexual interest. These men believe in this motive because of the societal roles that say women belong to them. A reasoning behind this can be because women are sexualized in video games, television, and movies. Third wave feminist interpretations tend to see this resentment as being based upon an assumption by men that they are entitled to sex and are therefore confused when they find that it is not forthcoming despite their supposed 'niceness.'^[37] More male orientated interpretations claim that the resentment is down to the fact that society, and the vast majority of people in spoken conversation, claim to be attracted to traits such as honesty, integrity and kindness, when in reality more superficial considerations trigger attraction. According to this interpretation people who display wealth, good looks, dominance and confidence tend to succeed more in romance than do 'nice guys.' Nice guys are therefore resentful at the inconsistency between what people claim to be attracted to and by how they act in reality.^[38][39] At times, these men are also known by the term "white knight."

In earlythe web site Heartless Bitches International (HBI)^[40] published several "rants" on the concept of the Nice Guy. The central theme was that a genuinely nice male is desirable, but that many Nice Guys are insecure men unwilling to articulate their romantic or sexual feelings directly. Instead, they choose to present themselves as their paramour's friend, and hang around, doing nice things for her in hopes that she will pick up on their desire for her. If she fails to read their secret feelings, Nice Guys become embittered and blame her for taking advantage of them dating less attractive woman reddit their niceness. The site is particularly critical of what they see as hypocrisy and manipulation on the part of self-professed Nice Guys.^[41][42]

According to journalist Paris Martineau, the incel and red pill movements (part of the anti-feministmanosphere) recruit depressed, frustrated men – who may suffer from "Nice Guy syndrome" – into the alt-right.^[43]

See also[edit]

References[edit]