Is a lesbian transphobic if she does not want to have sex with trans women? Some lesbians say they are increasingly being pressured and coerced into accepting trans women as partners - then shunned and even threatened for speaking out. Several have spoken to the BBC, along with trans women who are concerned about the issue too.

Warning: Story contains strong language

"I've had someone saying they would rather kill me than Hitler," says 24-year-old Jennie*.

"They said they would strangle me with a belt if they were in a room with me and Hitler. That was so bizarrely violent, just because I won't have sex with trans women."

Jennie is a lesbian woman. She says she is only sexually attracted to women who are biologically female and have vaginas. She therefore only has sex and relationships with women who are biologically female.

Jennie doesn't think this should be controversial, but not everyone agrees. She has been described as transphobic, a genital fetishist, a pervert and a "terf" - a trans exclusionary radical feminist.

"There's a common argument that they try and use that goes 'What if you met a woman in a bar and she's really beautiful and you got on really well and you went home and you discovered that she has a penis? Would you just not be interested?'" says Jennie, who lives in London and works in fashion.

"Yes, because even if someone seems attractive at first you can go off them. I just don't possess the capacity to be sexually attracted to people who are biologically male, regardless of how they identify."

I became aware of this particular issue after I wrote an article about sex, lies and legal consent.

Several people got in touch with me to say there was a "huge problem" for lesbians, who were being pressured to "accept the idea that a penis can be a female sex organ".

I knew this would be a hugely divisive subject, but I wanted to find out how widespread the issue was.

Ultimately, it has been difficult to determine the true scale of the problem because there has been little research on this topic - only one survey to my knowledge. However, those affected have told me the pressure comes from a minority of trans women, as well as activists who are not necessarily trans themselves.

They described being harassed and silenced if they tried to discuss the issue openly. I received online abuse myself when I tried to find interviewees using social media.

One of the lesbian women I spoke to, 24-year-old Amy*, told me she experienced verbal abuse from her own girlfriend, a bisexual woman who wanted them to have a threesome with a trans woman.

When Amy explained her reasons for not wanting to, her girlfriend became angry.

"The first thing she called me was transphobic," Amy said. "She immediately jumped to make me feel guilty about not wanting to sleep with someone."

She said the trans woman in question had not undergone genital surgery, so still had a penis.

"I know there is zero possibility for me to be attracted to this person," said Amy, who lives in the south west of England and works in a small print and design studio.

"I can hear their male vocal cords. I can see their male jawline. I know, under their clothes, there is male genitalia. These are physical realities, that, as a woman who likes women, you can't just ignore."

Amy said she would feel this way even if a trans woman had undergone genital surgery - which some opt for, while many don't.

Soon afterwards Amy and her girlfriend split up.

"I remember she was extremely shocked and angry, and claimed my views were extremist propaganda and inciting violence towards the trans community, as well as comparing me to far-right groups," she said.

'I felt very bad for hating every moment'

Another lesbian woman, 26-year-old Chloe*, said she felt so pressured she ended up having penetrative sex with a trans woman at university after repeatedly explaining she was not interested.

They lived near each other in halls of residence. Chloe had been drinking alcohol and does not think she could have given proper consent.

"I felt very bad for hating every moment, because the idea is we are attracted to gender rather than sex, and I did not feel that, and I felt bad for feeling like that," she said.

Ashamed and embarrassed, she decided not to tell anyone.

"The language at the time was very much 'trans women are women, they are always women, lesbians should date them'. And I was like, that's the reason I rejected this person. Does that make me bad? Am I not going to be allowed to be in the LGBT community anymore? Am I going to face repercussions for that instead?' So I didn't actually tell anyone."

Hearing about experiences like these led one lesbian activist to begin researching the topic. Angela C. Wild is co-founder of Get The L Out, whose members believe the rights of lesbians are being ignored by much of the current LGBT movement.

She and her fellow activists have demonstrated at Pride marches in the UK, where they have faced opposition. Pride in London accused the group of "bigotry, ignorance and hate".

"Lesbians are still extremely scared to speak because they think they won't be believed, because the trans ideology is so silencing everywhere," she said.

Angela created a questionnaire for lesbians and distributed it via social media, then published the results.

She said that of the 80 women who did respond, 56% reported being pressured or coerced to accept a trans woman as a sexual partner.

While acknowledging the sample may not be representative of the wider lesbian community, she believes it was important to capture their "points of view and stories".

As well as experiencing pressure to go on dates or engage in sexual activity with trans women, some of the respondents reported being successfully persuaded to do so.

"I thought I would be called a transphobe or that it would be wrong of me to turn down a trans woman who wanted to exchange nude pictures," one wrote. "Young women feel pressured to sleep with trans women 'to prove I am not a terf'."

One woman reported being targeted in an online group. "I was told that homosexuality doesn't exist and I owed it to my trans sisters to unlearn my 'genital confusion' so I can enjoy letting them penetrate me," she wrote.

One compared going on dates with trans women to so-called conversion therapy - the controversial practice of trying to change someone's sexual orientation.

"I knew I wasn't attracted to them but internalised the idea that it was because of my 'transmisogyny' and that if I dated them for long enough I could start to be attracted to them. It was DIY conversion therapy," she wrote.

Another reported a trans woman physically forcing her to have sex after they went on a date.

"[They] threatened to out me as a terf and risk my job if I refused to sleep with [them]," she wrote. "I was too young to argue and had been brainwashed by queer theory so [they were] a 'woman' even if every fibre of my being was screaming throughout so I agreed to go home with [them]. [They] used physical force when I changed my mind upon seeing [their] penis and raped me."

While welcomed by some in the LGBT community, Angela's report was described as transphobic by others.

"[People said] we are worse than rapists because we [supposedly] try to frame every trans woman as a rapist," said Angela.

"This is not the point. The point is that if it happens we need to speak about it. If it happens to one woman it's wrong. As it turns out it happens to more than one woman."

"This is something I've seen happen in real life to friends of mine. This was happening before I actually started my channel and it was one of the things that spurred it on," said Rose.

"What's happening is women who are attracted to biological females and female genitalia are finding themselves put in very awkward positions, where if for example on a dating website a trans woman approaches them and they say 'sorry I'm not into trans women', then they are labelled as transphobic."

Rose made the video in response to a series of tweets by trans athlete Veronica Ivy, then known as Rachel McKinnon, who wrote about hypothetical scenarios where trans people are rejected, and argued that "genital preferences" are transphobic.

I asked Veronica Ivy if she would speak to me but she did not want to.

Rose believes views like this are "incredibly toxic". She believes the idea that dating preferences are transphobic is being pushed by radical trans activists and their "self-proclaimed allies", who have extreme views which don't reflect the views of trans women she knows in real life.

"Certainly from my own friends group, the trans women I'm friends with, almost all of them agree lesbians are free to exclude trans women from their dating pool," she said.

However, she believes even trans people are afraid to talk openly about this for fear of abuse.

"People like me receive quite a lot of abuse from trans activists and their allies," she said.

"The trans activist side is incredibly rabid against people who they see as stepping out of line."

Debbie Hayton, a science teacher who transitioned in 2012 and writes about trans issues, worries some people transition without realising how hard it will be to form relationships.

Although there is currently little data on the sexual orientation of trans women, she believes most are female-attracted because they are biologically male and most males are attracted to women.

"So when they [trans women] are trying to find partners, when lesbian women say 'we want women', and heterosexual women say they want a heterosexual man, that leaves trans women isolated from relationships, and possibly feeling very let down by society, angry, upset and feeling that the world is out to get them," she said.

Debbie thinks it's fine if a lesbian woman does not want to date a trans woman, but is concerned some are being pressured to do so.

"The way that shaming is used is just horrific; it's emotional manipulation and warfare going on," she said.

"These women who want to form relationships with other biological women are feeling bad about that. How did we get here?"

Stonewall is the largest LGBT organisation in the UK and Europe. I asked the charity about these issues but it was unable to provide anyone for interview. However, in a statement, chief executive Nancy Kelley likened not wanting to date trans people to not wanting to date people of colour, fat people, or disabled people.

She said: "Sexuality is personal and something which is unique to each of us. There is no 'right' way to be a lesbian, and only we can know who we're attracted to.

"Nobody should ever be pressured into dating, or pressured into dating people they aren't attracted to. But if you find that when dating, you are writing off entire groups of people, like people of colour, fat people, disabled people or trans people, then it's worth considering how societal prejudices may have shaped your attractions.

"We know that prejudice is still common in the LGBT+ community, and it's important that we can talk about that openly and honestly."

Stonewall was founded in 1989 by people opposed to what was known as Section 28 - legislation which stopped councils and schools from "promoting" homosexuality. The organisation originally focused on issues affecting lesbian, gay and bisexual people, then in 2015 announced it would campaign for "trans equality".

A new group - LGB Alliance - has been formed partly in response to Stonewall's change of focus, by people who believe the interests of LGB people are being left behind.

"It's fair to say that I didn't expect to have to fight for these rights again, the rights of people whose sexual orientation is towards people of the same sex," said co-founder Bev Jackson, who also co-founded the UK Gay Liberation Front in 1970.

"We sort of thought that battle had been won and it's quite frightening and quite horrifying that we have to fight that battle again."

LGB Alliance says it is particularly concerned about younger and therefore more vulnerable lesbians being pressured into relationships with trans women.

"It's very disturbing that you find people saying 'It doesn't happen, nobody pressures anybody to go to bed with anybody else', but we know this is not the case," said Ms Jackson.

"We know a minority, but still a sizeable minority of trans women, do pressure lesbians to go out with them and have sex with them and it's a very disturbing phenomenon."

I asked Ms Jackson how she knew a "sizeable minority" of trans women were doing this.

She said: "We don't have figures but we are frequently contacted by lesbians who relate their experience in LGBT groups and on dating sites."

'Shyest young women'

Why does she think there has been so little research?

"I certainly think research on this topic would be discouraged, presumably because it would be characterised as a deliberately discriminatory project," she said.

"But also, the girls and young women themselves, since it's likely the shyest and least experienced young women who are the victims of such encounters, would be loath to discuss them."

LGB Alliance has been described as a hate group, anti-trans and transphobic. However, Ms Jackson insists the group is none of these things, and includes trans people among its supporters.

"This word transphobia has been placed like a dragon in the path to stop discussion about really important issues," she said.

"It's hurtful to our trans supporters, it's hurtful to all our supporters, to be called a hate group when we're the least hateful people you can find."

The term "cotton ceiling" is sometimes used when discussing these issues, but it is controversial.

It stems from "glass ceiling", which refers to an invisible barrier preventing women from climbing to the top of the career ladder. Cotton is a reference to women's underwear, with the phrase intended to represent the difficulty some trans women feel they face when seeking relationships or sex. "Breaking the cotton ceiling" means being able to have sex with a woman.

The term is first thought to have been used in 2012 by a trans porn actress going by the name of Drew DeVeaux. She no longer works in the industry and I have not been able to contact her.

However, the concept of the cotton ceiling came to wider attention when it was used in the title of a workshop by Planned Parenthood Toronto.

The title of the workshop was: "Overcoming the Cotton Ceiling: Breaking Down Sexual Barriers for Queer Trans Women", and the description explained how participants would "work together to identify barriers, strategize ways to overcome them, and build community".

It was led by a trans writer and artist who later went to work for Stonewall (the organisation has asked the BBC not to name her because of safeguarding concerns).

The trans woman who led the workshop declined to speak to the BBC, but Planned Parenthood Toronto stood by its decision to hold the workshop.

In a statement sent to the BBC, executive director Sarah Hobbs said the workshop "was never intended to advocate or promote overcoming any individual woman's objections to sexual activity". Instead, she said the workshop explored "the ways in which ideologies of transphobia and transmisogyny impact sexual desire".

In addition to Veronica Ivy, I contacted several other high profile trans women who have either written or spoken about sex and relationships. None of them wanted to speak to me but my editors and I felt it was important to reflect some of their views in this piece.

In a video which has now been deleted, YouTuber Riley J Dennis argued that dating "preferences" are discriminatory.

She asked: "Would you date a trans person, honestly? Think about it for a second. OK, got your answer? Well if you said no, I'm sorry but that's pretty discriminatory."

She explained: "I think the main concern that people have in regards to dating a trans person is that they won't have the genitals that they expect. Because we associate penises with men and vaginas with women, some people think they could never date a trans man with a vagina or a trans woman with a penis.

"But I think that people are more than their genitals. I think you can feel attraction to someone without knowing what's between their legs. And if you were to say that you're only attracted to people with vaginas or people with penises it really feels like you are reducing people just to their genitals."

She said: "I want to talk about the idea that there are a number of people out there who say they're not attracted to trans people, and I think that that is transphobic because any time you're making a broad generalised statement about a group of people that's typically not coming from a good place."

However, she added: "If there is a trans woman who is pre-op and somebody doesn't want to date them because they don't have the genitals that match their preference, that's obviously understandable."

"What is always going on is an assumption that the person is the current status of their bits, and the history of their bits," she wrote in the first article.

"Which is about as reductive a model of sexual attraction as I can imagine."

While this debate was once seen as a fringe issue, most of the interviewees who spoke to me said it has become prominent in recent years because of social media.

Ani O'Brien, spokeswoman for a New Zealand group called Speak Up For Women, created a TikTok video aimed at younger lesbians.

Ani, who is 30, told the BBC she is concerned for the generation of lesbians who are now in their teens.

"What we are seeing is a regression where once again young lesbians are being told 'How do you know you don't like dick if you haven't tried it?'" she said.

"We get told we should be looking beyond genitals and should accept that someone says they are a woman, and that's not what homosexuality is.

"You don't see as many trans men interested in gay men so they don't get it [the pressure] as much, but you do see a lot of trans women who are interested in women, so we are disproportionately affected by it."

Ani believes these kind of messages are confusing for young lesbians.

"I remember being a teenager in the closet and trying desperately to be straight, and that was hard enough," she said.

"I can't imagine what it would have been like, if I'd finally come to terms with the fact I was gay, to then be faced with the idea that some male bodies are not male so they must be lesbian, and having to contend with that as well."

Ani says she gets contacted on Twitter by young lesbians who do not know how to exit a relationship with a trans woman.

"They tried to do the right thing and they gave them a chance, and realised that they are a lesbian and they didn't want to be with someone with a male body, and the concept of transphobia and bigotry is used as an emotional weapon, that you can't leave because otherwise you're a transphobe," she said.

Like others who have voiced their concerns, Ani has received abuse online.

"I've been incited to kill myself, I've had rape threats," she said. However, she says she is determined to keep speaking out.

"A really important thing for us to do is to be able to talk these things through. Shutting down these conversations and calling them bigotry is really unhelpful, and it shouldn't be beyond our ability to have hard conversations about some of these things."

*The BBC has changed the names of some of those featured in this article to protect their identities.

Update 4 November 2021: We have updated this article, published last week, to remove a contribution from one individual in light of comments she has published on blog posts in recent days, which we have been able to verify.

We acknowledge that an admission of inappropriate behaviour by the same contributor should have been included in the original article.

Would you like to share your views or experiences in relation to the issues raised in this article?

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Is a lesbian transphobic if she does not want to have sex with trans women? Some lesbians say they are increasingly being pressured and coerced into accepting trans women as partners - then shunned and even threatened for speaking out. Several have spoken to the BBC, along with trans women who are concerned about the issue too.

Warning: Story contains strong language

"I've had someone saying they would rather kill me than Hitler," says 24-year-old Jennie*.

"They said they would strangle me with a belt if they were in a room with me and Hitler. That was so bizarrely violent, just because I won't have sex with trans women."

Jennie is a lesbian woman. She says she is only sexually attracted to women who are biologically female and have vaginas. She therefore only has sex and relationships with women who are biologically female.

Jennie doesn't think this should be controversial, but not everyone agrees. She has been described as transphobic, a genital fetishist, a pervert and a "terf" - a trans exclusionary radical feminist.

"There's a common argument that they try and use that goes 'What if you met a woman in a bar and she's really beautiful and you got on really well and you went home and you discovered that she has a penis? Would you just not be interested?'" says Jennie, who lives in London and works in fashion.

"Yes, because even if someone seems attractive at first you can go off them. I just don't possess the capacity to be sexually attracted to people who are biologically male, regardless of how they identify."

I became aware of this particular issue after I wrote an article about sex, lies and legal consent.

Several people got in touch with me to say there was a "huge problem" for lesbians, who were being pressured to "accept the idea that a penis can be a female sex organ".

I knew this would be a hugely divisive subject, but I wanted to find out how widespread the issue was.

Ultimately, it has been difficult to determine the true scale of the problem because there has been little research on this topic - only one survey to my knowledge. However, those affected have told me the pressure comes from a minority of trans women, as well as activists who are not necessarily trans themselves.

They described being harassed and silenced if they tried to discuss the issue openly. I received online abuse myself when I tried to find interviewees using social media.

One of the lesbian women I spoke to, 24-year-old Amy*, told me she experienced verbal abuse from her own girlfriend, a bisexual woman who wanted them to have a threesome with a trans woman.

When Amy explained her reasons for not wanting to, her girlfriend became angry.

"The first thing she called me was transphobic," Amy said. "She immediately jumped to make me feel guilty about not wanting to sleep with someone."

She said the trans woman in question had not undergone genital surgery, so still had a penis.

"I know there is zero possibility for me to be attracted to this person," said Amy, who lives in the south west of England and works in a small print and design studio.

"I can hear their male vocal cords. I can see their male jawline. I know, under their clothes, there is male genitalia. These are physical realities, that, as a woman who likes women, you can't just ignore."

Amy said she would feel this way even if a trans woman had undergone genital surgery - which some opt for, while many don't.

Soon afterwards Amy and her girlfriend split up.

"I remember she was extremely shocked and angry, and claimed my views were extremist propaganda and inciting violence towards the trans community, as well as comparing me to far-right groups," she said.

'I felt very bad for hating every moment'

Another lesbian woman, 26-year-old Chloe*, said she felt so pressured she ended up having penetrative sex with a trans woman at university after repeatedly explaining she was not interested.

They lived near each other in halls of residence. Chloe had been drinking alcohol and does not think she could have given proper consent.

"I felt very bad for hating every moment, because the idea is we are attracted to gender rather than sex, and I did not feel that, and I felt bad for feeling like that," she said.

Ashamed and embarrassed, she decided not to tell anyone.

"The language at the time was very much 'trans women are women, they are always women, lesbians should date them'. And I was like, that's the reason I rejected this person. Does that make me bad? Am I not going to be allowed to be in the LGBT community anymore? Am I going to face repercussions for that instead?' So I didn't actually tell anyone."

Hearing about experiences like these led one lesbian activist to begin researching the topic. Angela C. Wild is co-founder of Get The L Out, whose members believe the rights of lesbians are being ignored by much of the current LGBT movement.

She and her fellow activists have demonstrated at Pride marches in the UK, where they have faced opposition. Pride in London accused the group of "bigotry, ignorance and hate".

"Lesbians are still extremely scared to speak because they think they won't be believed, because the trans ideology is so silencing everywhere," she said.

Angela created a questionnaire for lesbians and distributed it via social media, then published the results.

She said that of the 80 women who did respond, 56% reported being pressured or coerced to accept a trans woman as a sexual partner.

While acknowledging the sample may not be representative of the wider lesbian community, she believes it was important to capture their "points of view and stories".

As well as experiencing pressure to go on dates or engage in sexual activity with trans women, some of the respondents reported being successfully persuaded to do so.

"I thought I would be called a transphobe or that it would be wrong of me to turn down a trans woman who wanted to exchange nude pictures," one wrote. "Young women feel pressured to sleep with trans women 'to prove I am not a terf'."

One woman reported being targeted in an online group. "I was told that homosexuality doesn't exist and I owed it to my trans sisters to unlearn my 'genital confusion' so I can enjoy letting them penetrate me," she wrote.

One compared going on dates with trans women to so-called conversion therapy - the controversial practice of trying to change someone's sexual orientation.

"I knew I wasn't attracted to them but internalised the idea that it was because of my 'transmisogyny' and that if I dated them for long enough I could start to be attracted to them. It was DIY conversion therapy," she wrote.

Another reported a trans woman physically forcing her to have sex after they went on a date.

"[They] threatened to out me as a terf and risk my job if I refused to sleep with [them]," she wrote. "I was too young to argue and had been brainwashed by queer theory so [they were] a 'woman' even if every fibre of my being was screaming throughout so I agreed to go home with [them]. [They] used physical force when I changed my mind upon seeing [their] penis and raped me."

While welcomed by some in the LGBT community, Angela's report was described as transphobic by others.

"[People said] we are worse than rapists because we [supposedly] try to frame every trans woman as a rapist," said Angela.

"This is not the point. The point is that if it happens we need to speak about it. If it happens to one woman it's wrong. As it turns out it happens to more than one woman."

"This is something I've seen happen in real life to friends of mine. This was happening before I actually started my channel and it was one of the things that spurred it on," said Rose.

"What's happening is women who are attracted to biological females and female genitalia are finding themselves put in very awkward positions, where if for example on a dating website a trans woman approaches them and they say 'sorry I'm not into trans women', then they are labelled as transphobic."

Rose made the video in response to a series of tweets by trans athlete Veronica Ivy, then known as Rachel McKinnon, who wrote about hypothetical scenarios where trans people are rejected, and argued that "genital preferences" are transphobic.

I asked Veronica Ivy if she would speak to me but she did not want to.

Rose believes views like this are "incredibly toxic". She believes the idea that dating preferences are transphobic is being pushed by radical trans activists and their "self-proclaimed allies", who have extreme views which don't reflect the views of trans women she knows in real life.

"Certainly from my own friends group, the trans women I'm friends with, almost all of them agree lesbians are free to exclude trans women from their dating pool," she said.

However, she believes even trans people are afraid to talk openly about this for fear of abuse.

"People like me receive quite a lot of abuse from trans activists and their allies," she said.

"The trans activist side is incredibly rabid against people who they see as stepping out of line."

Debbie Hayton, a science teacher who transitioned in 2012 and writes about trans issues, worries some people transition without realising how hard it will be to form relationships.

Although there is currently little data on the sexual orientation of trans women, she believes most are female-attracted because they are biologically male and most males are attracted to women.

"So when they [trans women] are trying to find partners, when lesbian women say 'we want women', and heterosexual women say they want a heterosexual man, that leaves trans women isolated from relationships, and possibly feeling very let down by society, angry, upset and feeling that the world is out to get them," she said.

Debbie thinks it's fine if a lesbian woman does not want to date a trans woman, but is concerned some are being pressured to do so.

"The way that shaming is used is just horrific; it's emotional manipulation and warfare going on," she said.

"These women who want to form relationships with other biological women are feeling bad about that. How did we get here?"

Stonewall is the largest LGBT organisation in the UK and Europe. I asked the charity about these issues but it was unable to provide anyone for interview. However, in a statement, chief executive Nancy Kelley likened not wanting to date trans people to not wanting to date people of colour, fat people, or disabled people.

She said: "Sexuality is personal and something which is unique to each of us. There is no 'right' way to be a lesbian, and only we can know who we're attracted to.

"Nobody should ever be pressured into dating, or pressured into dating people they aren't attracted to. But if you find that when dating, you are writing off entire groups of people, like people of colour, fat people, disabled people or trans people, then it's worth considering how societal prejudices may have shaped your attractions.

"We know that prejudice is still common in the LGBT+ community, and it's important that we can talk about that openly and honestly."

Stonewall was founded in 1989 by people opposed to what was known as Section 28 - legislation which stopped councils and schools from "promoting" homosexuality. The organisation originally focused on issues affecting lesbian, gay and bisexual people, then in 2015 announced it would campaign for "trans equality".

A new group - LGB Alliance - has been formed partly in response to Stonewall's change of focus, by people who believe the interests of LGB people are being left behind.

"It's fair to say that I didn't expect to have to fight for these rights again, the rights of people whose sexual orientation is towards people of the same sex," said co-founder Bev Jackson, who also co-founded the UK Gay Liberation Front in 1970.

"We sort of thought that battle had been won and it's quite frightening and quite horrifying that we have to fight that battle again."

LGB Alliance says it is particularly concerned about younger and therefore more vulnerable lesbians being pressured into relationships with trans women.

"It's very disturbing that you find people saying 'It doesn't happen, nobody pressures anybody to go to bed with anybody else', but we know this is not the case," said Ms Jackson.

"We know a minority, but still a sizeable minority of trans women, do pressure lesbians to go out with them and have sex with them and it's a very disturbing phenomenon."

I asked Ms Jackson how she knew a "sizeable minority" of trans women were doing this.

She said: "We don't have figures but we are frequently contacted by lesbians who relate their experience in LGBT groups and on dating sites."

'Shyest young women'

Why does she think there has been so little research?

"I certainly think research on this topic would be discouraged, presumably because it would be characterised as a deliberately discriminatory project," she said.

"But also, the girls and young women themselves, since it's likely the shyest and least experienced young women who are the victims of such encounters, would be loath to discuss them."

LGB Alliance has been described as a hate group, anti-trans and transphobic. However, Ms Jackson insists the group is none of these things, and includes trans people among its supporters.

"This word transphobia has been placed like a dragon in the path to stop discussion about really important issues," she said.

"It's hurtful to our trans supporters, it's hurtful to all our supporters, to be called a hate group when we're the least hateful people you can find."

The term "cotton ceiling" is sometimes used when discussing these issues, but it is controversial.

It stems from "glass ceiling", which refers to an invisible barrier preventing women from climbing to the top of the career ladder. Cotton is a reference to women's underwear, with the phrase intended to represent the difficulty some trans women feel they face when seeking relationships or sex. "Breaking the cotton ceiling" means being able to have sex with a woman.

The term is first thought to have been used in 2012 by a trans porn actress going by the name of Drew DeVeaux. She no longer works in the industry and I have not been able to contact her.

However, the concept of the cotton ceiling came to wider attention when it was used in the title of a workshop by Planned Parenthood Toronto.

The title of the workshop was: "Overcoming the Cotton Ceiling: Breaking Down Sexual Barriers for Queer Trans Women", and the description explained how participants would "work together to identify barriers, strategize ways to overcome them, and build community".

It was led by a trans writer and artist who later went to work for Stonewall (the organisation has asked the BBC not to name her because of safeguarding concerns).

The trans woman who led the workshop declined to speak to the BBC, but Planned Parenthood Toronto stood by its decision to hold the workshop.

In a statement sent to the BBC, executive director Sarah Hobbs said the workshop "was never intended to advocate or promote overcoming any individual woman's objections to sexual activity". Instead, she said the workshop explored "the ways in which ideologies of transphobia and transmisogyny impact sexual desire".

In addition to Veronica Ivy, I contacted several other high profile trans women who have either written or spoken about sex and relationships. None of them wanted to speak to me but my editors and I felt it was important to reflect some of their views in this piece.

In a video which has now been deleted, YouTuber Riley J Dennis argued that dating "preferences" are discriminatory.

She asked: "Would you date a trans person, honestly? Think about it for a second. OK, got your answer? Well if you said no, I'm sorry but that's pretty discriminatory."

She explained: "I think the main concern that people have in regards to dating a trans person is that they won't have the genitals that they expect. Because we associate penises with men and vaginas with women, some people think they could never date a trans man with a vagina or a trans woman with a penis.

"But I think that people are more than their genitals. I think you can feel attraction to someone without knowing what's between their legs. And if you were to say that you're only attracted to people with vaginas or people with penises it really feels like you are reducing people just to their genitals."

She said: "I want to talk about the idea that there are a number of people out there who say they're not attracted to trans people, and I think that that is transphobic because any time you're making a broad generalised statement about a group of people that's typically not coming from a good place."

However, she added: "If there is a trans woman who is pre-op and somebody doesn't want to date them because they don't have the genitals that match their preference, that's obviously understandable."

"What is always going on is an assumption that the person is the current status of their bits, and the history of their bits," she wrote in the first article.

"Which is about as reductive a model of sexual attraction as I can imagine."

While this debate was once seen as a fringe issue, most of the interviewees who spoke to me said it has become prominent in recent years because of social media.

Ani O'Brien, spokeswoman for a New Zealand group called Speak Up For Women, created a TikTok video aimed at younger lesbians.

Ani, who is 30, told the BBC she is concerned for the generation of lesbians who are now in their teens.

"What we are seeing is a regression where once again young lesbians are being told 'How do you know you don't like dick if you haven't tried it?'" she said.

"We get told we should be looking beyond genitals and should accept that someone says they are a woman, and that's not what homosexuality is.

"You don't see as many trans men interested in gay men so they don't get it [the pressure] as much, but you do see a lot of trans women who are interested in women, so we are disproportionately affected by it."

Ani believes these kind of messages are confusing for young lesbians.

"I remember being a teenager in the closet and trying desperately to be straight, and that was hard enough," she said.

"I can't imagine what it would have been like, if I'd finally come to terms with the fact I was gay, to then be faced with the idea that some male bodies are not male so they must be lesbian, and having to contend with that as well."

Ani says she gets contacted on Twitter by young lesbians who do not know how to exit a relationship with a trans woman.

"They tried to do the right thing and they gave them a chance, and realised that they are a lesbian and they didn't want to be with someone with a male body, and the concept of transphobia and bigotry is used as an emotional weapon, that you can't leave because otherwise you're a transphobe," she said.

Like others who have voiced their concerns, Ani has received abuse online.

"I've been incited to kill myself, I've had rape threats," she said. However, she says she is determined to keep speaking out.

"A really important thing for us to do is to be able to talk these things through. Shutting down these conversations and calling them bigotry is really unhelpful, and it shouldn't be beyond our ability to have hard conversations about some of these things."

*The BBC has changed the names of some of those featured in this article to protect their identities.

Update 4 November 2021: We have updated this article, published last week, to remove a contribution from one individual in light of comments she has published on blog posts in recent days, which we have been able to verify.

We acknowledge that an admission of inappropriate behaviour by the same contributor should have been included in the original article.

Would you like to share your views or experiences in relation to the issues raised in this article?

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Please ensure you have read our terms & conditions and privacy policy.

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Abstract

Keywords: heterosexual men, transgender women, erotic desire, USA

Introduction

Contemporary social scientists have only recently begun to explore men’s sexual desire toward transgender women (hereafter ‘trans women’). Men who have sex with trans women have received limited attention in sexuality research (Bockting, Miner, and Rosser 2007). While some early studies viewed these men simply as anonymous partners engaged in impersonal sexual transactions (Pettiway 1996) other studies pathologised their behaviour. Money and Lamacz (1984) labelled men who expressed a sexual desire for biological males who feminised their bodies as ‘gynemimetophiles’ and suggested treatment, ‘Clinicians can contribute to the rehabilitation and welfare of gynemimetic youth in society, by providing overall health care, including endocrine treatment and mental-health counseling’ (p.392). Similarly, Blanchard and Collins (1993) invented the term ‘gynandromorphophiles’ to define such men. Both studies identified the desired sexual partner as cross-dresser, transvestite, transsexual, or she-male. Both lacked a specific understanding of a transgender identity and both viewed the object of sexual desire as paraphilia.

More recently, three studies have sought to understand the ways in which men describe their desire for, attraction to, and sexual experiences with trans women. Weinberg and Williams (2009) interviewed men sexually interested in trans women at a bar about their desire for and experiences with trans women. Qualitative findings demonstrated the presence of ‘objectified embodiment’ among the men toward their trans women sexual partners, i.e., the body of the trans woman was described as the object of the men’s desire. Analysis of the men’s desire was rooted in the trans women’s bodily appearance and physical anatomy. The men found the atmosphere in the bar – in which they received flattery, flirtatious comments, and physical contact – to be highly erotic.

In another study, researchers explored perceptions of identity and meanings of sexual behaviour among men who have sex with trans women (Operario et al. 2008). Three general patterns of erotic attraction were observed: (1) attraction to an individual who happened to be a trans woman rather than an attraction to trans women as a group; thus, the individual desire for sexual partnership dominated the interactions; (2) attraction to trans women because of their challenge to the traditional gender binary, in which case political or philosophical desire motivated sexual attraction; and, (3) an explicit interest in the trans body, a trans woman’s physical appearances, and an attraction to eroticised femininity or hyper-femininity or the specific physical anatomical features of some trans women.

Finally, a recent study sought to describe the ways in which men who have sex with trans women constructed meaning to their sexual practices (Mauk, Perry, and Muñoz-Laboy, 2013). Three distinct themes of desire emerged: (1) the phallus-centric theme, which was categorised by a man’s attraction to a trans woman’s penis and emphasised the physical body of trans women; (2) the social desire for a relationship or companionship whereby an encounter with a trans woman might have started as a sexual fantasy but then developed into an intimate relationship; and, (3) sex with a trans woman as a way to explore men’s own femininity by dressing in women’s clothes or performing as drag queens.

Method

Findings

Participants described their sexual experiences with a trans woman and what these experiences meant to them. Three themes emerged that reflected how the participants defined and negotiated their occasional sexual encounters with a trans woman, both psychologically through their understanding of sex with a trans woman with a penis, and physically through the navigation of specific sex acts: (1) the erotic desire that transpired from a trans woman’s construction of her femininity; (2) the sexual act that dictated specific navigation of a trans woman’s penis; and, (3) the sexual dissonance that resulted from being a heterosexually identified man who had sex with a partner who has a penis. Participants’ narratives revealed the importance of femininity in descriptions of their sexual partners. However, ‘femininity’ is a subjective construct that depends upon each individual’s perceptions and definitions; thus, the participants explained the perspectives of femininity that were most important to them. Many participants also explained how their navigation of their partner’s penis during sexual encounters was an area that played a significant role in ascribing meaning to their experiences. Some participants’ desire was predicated upon interpreting a trans woman’s femininity as an ‘illusion,’ requiring no contact with or visual awareness of her penis. Finally, participants highlighted their internal struggles with their construction of the illusion and actual knowledge that they were not having sex with a cisgender woman.³

Discussion

The aim of this study was to better understand the meaning and construction of erotic desire among a sample of heterosexual men who occasionally had sex with a trans woman. As per the eligibility criteria, all participants reported a minimum of one sexual encounter with a pre- or non-operative trans woman in the previous year but not more than one such sexual encounter a month. Limiting eligibility to participants who engaged in an occasional sexual encounter with a trans woman was effective as the themes that developed were from those who were not familiar with or involved in a trans cultural community. Thus, among this sample, three themes emerged from the participants’ narratives: erotic desire from the construction of femininity, navigating the sexual encounter either away from or toward the trans woman’s penis, and sexual dissonance regarding sex with a partner who possessed a penis. One of the most important findings of this study was the role an illusion played in the meaning and construction of erotic desire among this sample of heterosexual men.

Among this sample, trans women were found not to be objects of erotic interest as trans women, but, rather, as ‘illusions of women’ where ‘woman’ or ‘real woman’ were taken to mean a cisgender woman (Terry: ‘Now a transgender, I guess it’s the illusion of a woman.’). This was the case even when a trans woman was allowed by the participant to, in some sense, ‘count’ as a woman (Jim: ‘I was trying to keep the illusion that this was a real female.’). While participants’ individual fantasies helped shape the illusion, it was also true that certain forms of social role-play provided the necessary sexual scripts (Plummer 2005) for those individual fantasies. Many participants felt their trans woman sexual partner was playing the part of a cisgender woman (i.e., generating an illusion) through the construction of her femininity (a necessary part of the fantasy). For these participants, erotic desires and fantasies were dependent upon what Garfinkel (1967) called ceremonial transfers of sex.

Garfinkel viewed sex as a common-sense, pre-theoretical notion dependent upon the three components of the ‘natural attitude about sex.’ According to Garfinkel, the natural attitude about sex is normative in that adherence to the axioms is thought to be natural and proper. Those who subscribe to this view (ie ‘normals’) are consequently suspicious of any scientific, medical, or theoretical views that challenge the natural attitude about sex and view any exceptions as ‘unnatural’ or ‘abnormal.’

While stressing the invariance of sex-status in the natural attitude, Garfinkel also noted that ceremonial transfers in sex-status are permitted (e.g., masquerades, play-acting, party behaviour). In such cases, the transfer is subject to strict social controls requiring it to end at some point. Moreover it is viewed as a form of pretence that stands in contrast to the way things ‘really are.’ Both the temporary and unreal qualities of the ceremonial transfer are necessary for preserving the natural attitude that sex is invariant.

From Garfinkel’s perspective, sexual encounters with trans women were viewed by the participants as erotic sites of ceremonial transfers that worked in sustaining their private fantasies while simultaneously maintaining their natural attitude about sex. As sexual encounters, the ceremonial transfers were necessarily time-limited, ending with the participant’s sexual satisfaction. The role-play was taken to stand in contrast to the reality of the situation, primarily on the basis of the trans woman’s possession of a penis, the essential marker of sex status in the natural attitude. What facilitated the ceremonial transfer was the feminine gender presentation and overall physical appearance of a trans woman insofar as the trans woman could be successfully incorporated into the participant’s sexual desire. As also noted in Operario’s and colleagues’ (2008) theme of hyper-femininity, it was, in all cases, imperative that the trans woman maintained a high degree of femininity in order to be an object of erotic interest (Joe: ‘No signs of manliness whatsoever, none.’). This theme is also consistent with Weinberg’s and Williams’ (2009) work, which found that men’s sexual desire toward a trans woman was embedded in her physical appearance. Similarly, although none of the participants in the Weinberg and Williams study used the term ‘illusion’ to describe the trans woman’s presentation of femininity (illusion was an interpretation made by the researchers but not quoted by the participants), many did differentiate a trans woman from a ‘real’ woman and noted the element of fantasy as a component of sexual embodiment. Weinberg’s and Williams’ study, however, was comprised of both heterosexually and bisexually identified men, and both men who engaged in sexual encounters with a trans woman as well as those who had not engaged in a sexual encounter with a trans woman but were interested in doing so. Findings from this study differed greatly based upon the participants’ sexual identity; whereas, those who identified as bisexual incorporated the trans woman’s penis into the sexual encounter and those who identified as heterosexual did not. Thus, sexual dissonance was restricted to those who identified as heterosexual. As embracing the identity of a heterosexual male was an inclusion criterion of this current study, navigation away from or toward the trans woman’s penis was irrespective of sexual identity.

The construction of a trans woman as an illusion was found to have different roles in descriptions of the participants’ sexual desire; furthermore, the ceremonial transfer and the penis of a trans woman was found to have different roles with regard to the maintenance of the illusion. For some participants, the trans woman was simply fantasised as being a cisgender woman (Vince: ‘It was like I was actually, felt like I was having sex with a woman.’); the trans woman served as a stand-in for a cisgender woman. With such narratives, neither the perceived ceremonial transfer from male to female status nor the penis were part of the erotic content and, consequently, it was necessary for the participant to have excluded the penis entirely from the sexual encounter in order to maintain the fantasy that the trans woman was a cisgender woman (Terry: ‘When I’m with them I don’t even want to see their penis because then it totally would mess up my thing I’ve got going on in my head.’). The penis signalled the unreality of the trans woman’s womanhood, while the successfully eroticised feminine appearance facilitated the ceremonial transfer that enabled the sexual fantasy that she was a cisgender woman. For these participants, from Garfinkel’s (1967) perspective, the sexual encounter with a trans woman was an erotic site of ceremonial transfer, which served to resolve their sexual dissonance. Additionally, consistent with Weeks (1985), the desire here could have been a manifestation of a previous instance (perhaps a previous relationship with a cisgender woman) and, thus, the relationship with the trans woman was a relationship to an illusion. Although sexual dissonance existed for some participants, no participant experienced concern about his own heterosexual identity.

For some, however, the penis was central to the erotic encounter. These participants were reminiscent of Mauk’s and Muñoz-Laboy’s (2013) phallus-centric theme whereby the penis was emphasised in the attraction. While some participants had reconciled their sexual desire for a trans woman, others traversed through a sexual dissonance (Jim: ‘He’s a woman. But in my right mind I know he ain’t.’). In some cases, the illusory ‘transformation’ of a man into a woman was itself part of the erotic content (Howard: ‘The excitement of it is because he’s transformed from a man to a beautiful woman, and I like that, and that turns me on.’). For these participants, the ceremonial transfer itself was part of the erotic content. In such cases, the penis was central to the encounter because, as the essential insignia of sex in the natural attitude, the penis served to establish the eroticised reality of the trans woman’s sex status (male) that stood in contrast to the eroticised ceremonial transfer facilitated by trans woman’s femininity (the illusion of a woman). For other participants, what contributed to the sexual desire was the illusion of a cisgender woman with a penis (Anthony: ‘It’s a trip to be looking up at [a] woman, and see a woman’s face and then hear her sound like a woman that’s sexually excited, but to cum as a man’).

Although the ways in which the participants eroticised and constructed meaning about erotic desire with a trans woman were not homogenous, the interpretation of a trans woman as pretending to be a cisgender woman played an important role in what was eroticised, how that eroticism was understood, and consequently provided the basis for categorising the various different types of erotic desire. Thus, the importance of social meaning and sexual scripts in understanding men’s sexuality (Plummer 2005) as well as underscoring the fact that some of these scripts and systems of meaning may reflect culturally oppressive values (e.g., transphobia). Given the complex nature of some of the erotic content (i.e., the eroticisation of sexual transformation, the eroticisation of a woman with a penis) in stimulating sexual arousal, the biological nature of the erotic content was far from clear. It was not surprising that the construction of a trans woman as an illusion of a cisgender woman tended to correspond with the participants’ view that trans women were not ‘real’ women. Even when participants suggested that a trans woman was a kind of a woman or used the vernacular ‘pussy,’ male pronouns continued to be used in their narratives.

This study was limited by the nature of self-reported qualitative data, which may include recall error and social desirability (Elliot, Huizinga, and Menard 1989). The study was limited by the methodolgy of using a convenience sample. Findings could differ if data were collected using a different recruitment strategy such as respondent-driven sampling (Heckathorn 1997) or time-space sampling methodology (MacKellar et al., 2007; Semaan 2010). Finally, the specific characteristics of the sample also served as a limitation as findings could differ from data collected in different geographic regions or among participants with different sociodemographic profiles. Therefore, these findings do not necessarily reflect all heterosexual men who occasionally have sex with a trans woman. Despite these limitations, these findings are useful in understanding the sexual desire, erotic attraction, and fantasies of a sample of heterosexual men who have occasional sexual encounters with a trans woman. Thus, these data provide another framework for continuing the discourse on the complexity of erotic desire.

Acknowledgments

Footnotes

References

1. ^"Miriam Rivera, reality TV's first trans star, dies". 9 August 2019. Retrieved 12 August 2019.
2. ^Davies, Catriona (30 October 2003). "TV Suitors Shocked as Dream Girl Turns Out to Be a Man". The Daily Telegraph. Archived from the original on 5 January 2006.
3. ^"Transsexual Surprise Holds Up TV Show". Reuters. 30 October 2003.
4. ^Deans, Jason (31 October 2003). "Reality Show Men Sue Sky Over Transsexual 'Trick'". The Guardian.
5. ^"Men 'Suspected' TV Transsexual". BBC News. 5 November 2003.
6. ^Miriam (24 March 2004). There's Something about Miriam. via Brighter Pictures/Sky One
7. ^Higham, Nick (4 November 2003). "Has reality TV gone too far?". BBC News.
8. ^Paulsen, Wade (4 November 2003). "UK reality show with Crying Game twist elicits lawsuit threat from duped men". Reality TV World.
9. ^Newton Dunn, Tom (1 November 2003). "She Ain't Arf Odd, Mum! Hero Tricked into TV Snog with Bloke". The Daily Mirror.^{[dead link]}
10. ^Rogers, Steve (22 February 2004). "Lawsuit settled, Crying Game-like There's Something About Miriam premieres in UK". Reality TV World.
11. ^Jennifer Sym (28 March 2004). Transsexual Miriam Rejected by Reality Show Winner. The Scotsman
12. ^Rocchio, Christopher (25 July 2007). "Fox Reality to debut UK's There's Something About Miriam 31 October". Reality TV World.
13. ^Wilkes, Neil (3 April 2006). "Fox Reality picks up Miriam, Dragon's Den". Digital Spy.
14. ^Lane, Megan (9 December 2005). "The Joke's on You". BBC News.
15. ^Boynton, Petra (7 August 2004). "Real Life: My Mum Is My Dad"(PDF). BMJ. 329 (7461): 355. doi:10.1136/bmj.329.7461.355. PMC 506870. Archived from the original(PDF) on 19 April 2009.
16. ^"Reality TV Transsexual Speaks Out Against Complaints". GayLifeUK. 23 February 2004. Archived from the original on 24 July 2014. Retrieved 2 July 2012.
17. ^Enker, Debi (20 May 2004). "Reality Reaches New Low". The Age.
18. ^Smith, Dave (8 August 2004). "Sexual Healing". The Observer.
19. ^"Bye Bye Miriam". Sky1. Archived from the original on 9 June 2004.
20. ^Buttner, Claire (3 June 2004). "Miriam the BB Intruder".
21. ^Buttner, Claire (14 June 2004). "Merlin's Silent Protest". The Sydney Morning Herald.
22. ^Serano, Julia (19 November 2007). "There's Something About 'Deception'". Feministing.
23. ^Singh, Anita (23 November 2006). "TV 'Victims' in Turner Exhibit; Film-maker Reveals How Small Screen Ruined Their Lives". Liverpool Daily Post.
24. ^Odone, Cristina (30 September 2007). "It Takes Art, Not TV, to Show Us Reality". The Guardian.
25. ^Ramachandran, Naman (17 November 2021). "Trans Reality TV Star Miriam Rivera's Show Is Subject of Investigative Series From 'Dr. Death' Podcast Studio Wondery (EXCLUSIVE)". Variety. Retrieved 29 November 2021.: CS1 maint: url-status (link)
26. ^"This week in audio: Fat Leonard; Harsh Reality: The Story of Miriam Rivera; Afterwords: Stuart Hall". the Guardian. 4 December 2021. Retrieved 10 December 2021.
27. ^Marriott, James. "Harsh Reality review — the casual cruelty of TV". ISSN 0140-0460. Retrieved 10 December 2021.

Abstract

Keywords: heterosexual men, transgender women, erotic desire, USA

Introduction

Contemporary social scientists have only recently begun to explore men’s sexual desire toward transgender women (hereafter ‘trans women’). Men who have sex with trans women have received limited attention in sexuality research (Bockting, Miner, guy tricked into dating a transgender, and Rosser 2007). While some early studies viewed these men simply as anonymous partners engaged in impersonal sexual transactions (Pettiway 1996) other studies pathologised their behaviour. Money and Lamacz (1984) labelled men who expressed a sexual desire for biological males who feminised their bodies as ‘gynemimetophiles’ and suggested treatment, ‘Clinicians can contribute to the rehabilitation and welfare of gynemimetic youth in society, by providing overall health care, including endocrine treatment and mental-health counseling’ (p.392). Similarly, Blanchard and Collins (1993) invented the term ‘gynandromorphophiles’ to define such men. Both studies identified the desired sexual partner as cross-dresser, transvestite, transsexual, or she-male. Both lacked a specific understanding of a transgender identity and both viewed the object of sexual desire as paraphilia.

More recently, three studies have sought to understand the ways in which men describe their desire for, attraction to, guy tricked into dating a transgender, and sexual experiences with trans women. Weinberg and Williams (2009) interviewed men sexually interested in trans women at a bar about their desire for and experiences with trans women. Qualitative findings demonstrated the presence of ‘objectified embodiment’ among the men toward their trans women sexual partners, i.e., the body of the trans woman was described as the object of the men’s desire. Analysis of the men’s desire was rooted in the trans women’s bodily appearance and physical anatomy. The men found the atmosphere in the bar – in which they received flattery, flirtatious comments, and physical contact – to be highly erotic.

In another study, researchers explored perceptions of identity and meanings of sexual behaviour among men who have sex with trans women (Operario et al. 2008). Three general patterns of erotic attraction were observed: (1) attraction to an individual who happened to be a trans woman rather than an attraction to trans women as a group; thus, the individual desire for sexual partnership dominated the interactions; (2) attraction to trans women because of their challenge to the traditional gender binary, in which case political or philosophical desire motivated sexual attraction; and, guy tricked into dating a transgender, (3) an explicit interest in the trans body, guy tricked into dating a transgender, a trans woman’s physical appearances, guy tricked into dating a transgender, and an attraction to eroticised femininity or hyper-femininity or the specific physical anatomical features of some trans women.

Finally, a guy tricked into dating a transgender study sought to describe the ways in which men who have sex with trans women constructed meaning to their sexual practices (Mauk, Perry, and Muñoz-Laboy, 2013). Three distinct themes of desire emerged: (1) the phallus-centric theme, which was categorised by a man’s attraction to a trans woman’s penis and emphasised the physical body of trans women; (2) the social desire for a relationship or companionship whereby an encounter with a trans woman might have started as a sexual fantasy but then developed into an intimate relationship; and, (3) sex with a trans woman as a way to explore men’s own femininity by dressing in women’s clothes or performing as drag queens.

Method

Findings

Participants described their sexual experiences with a trans woman and what these experiences meant to them. Three themes emerged that reflected how the participants defined and negotiated their occasional sexual encounters with a trans woman, both psychologically through their understanding of sex with a trans woman with a penis, and physically through the navigation of specific sex acts: (1) the erotic desire that transpired from a trans woman’s construction of her femininity; (2) the sexual act that dictated specific navigation of a trans woman’s penis; and, (3) the sexual dissonance that resulted from being a heterosexually identified man who had sex with a partner who has a penis. Participants’ narratives revealed the importance of femininity in descriptions of their sexual partners. However, ‘femininity’ is a guy tricked into dating a transgender construct that depends upon each individual’s perceptions and definitions; thus, the participants explained the perspectives of femininity that were most important to them. Many participants also explained how their navigation of their partner’s penis during sexual encounters was an area that played a significant role in ascribing meaning to their experiences. Some participants’ desire was predicated upon interpreting a trans woman’s femininity as an ‘illusion,’ requiring no contact with or visual awareness of her penis. Finally, participants highlighted their internal struggles with their construction of the illusion and actual knowledge that they were not having sex with a cisgender woman.³

Discussion

The aim of this study was to better understand the meaning and construction of erotic desire among a sample of heterosexual men who occasionally had sex with a trans woman. As per the eligibility criteria, all participants reported a minimum of one sexual encounter with a pre- or non-operative trans woman in the previous year but not more than one such sexual encounter a month. Limiting eligibility to participants who engaged in an occasional sexual encounter with a trans woman was effective as the themes that developed were from those who were not familiar with or involved in a trans cultural community. Thus, among this sample, three themes emerged from the participants’ narratives: erotic desire from the construction of femininity, navigating the sexual encounter either away from or toward the trans woman’s penis, and sexual dissonance regarding sex with a partner who possessed a penis. One of the most important findings of this study was the role an illusion played in the meaning and construction of erotic desire among this sample of heterosexual men.

Among this sample, trans women were found not to be objects of erotic interest as trans women, but, rather, as ‘illusions of women’ where ‘woman’ or ‘real woman’ were taken to mean a cisgender woman (Terry: ‘Now a transgender, I guess it’s the illusion of a woman.’). This was the case even when a trans woman was allowed by the participant to, in some sense, ‘count’ as a woman (Jim: ‘I was trying to keep the illusion that this was a real female.’). While participants’ individual fantasies helped shape the illusion, it was also true that certain forms of social role-play provided the necessary sexual scripts (Plummer 2005) for those individual fantasies. Many participants felt their trans woman sexual partner was playing the part of a cisgender woman (i.e., guy tricked into dating a transgender, generating an illusion) through the construction of her femininity (a necessary part of the fantasy). For these participants, erotic desires and fantasies were dependent upon what Garfinkel (1967) called ceremonial transfers of sex.

Garfinkel viewed sex as a common-sense, pre-theoretical notion dependent upon the three components of the asian cupid dating filipina attitude about sex.’ According to Garfinkel, the natural attitude about sex is normative in that adherence to the axioms is thought to be natural and proper. Those who subscribe to this view (ie ‘normals’) are consequently suspicious of any scientific, medical, or theoretical views that challenge the natural attitude about sex and view any exceptions as ‘unnatural’ or ‘abnormal.’

While stressing the invariance of sex-status in the natural attitude, Garfinkel also noted that ceremonial transfers in sex-status are permitted (e.g., masquerades, play-acting, party behaviour). In such cases, the transfer is subject to strict social controls requiring it to end at some point. Moreover it is viewed as a form of pretence that stands in contrast to the way things ‘really are.’ Both the temporary and unreal qualities of the ceremonial transfer are necessary for preserving the natural attitude that sex is invariant.

From Garfinkel’s perspective, sexual encounters with trans women were viewed by the participants as erotic sites of ceremonial transfers that worked in sustaining their private fantasies while simultaneously maintaining their natural attitude about sex. As sexual encounters, the ceremonial transfers were necessarily time-limited, ending with the participant’s sexual satisfaction. The role-play was taken to stand in contrast to the reality of the situation, primarily on the basis of the trans woman’s possession of a penis, the essential marker of sex status in the natural attitude, guy tricked into dating a transgender. What facilitated the ceremonial transfer was the feminine gender presentation and overall physical appearance of a trans woman insofar as the trans woman could be successfully incorporated into the participant’s sexual desire. Guy tricked into dating a transgender also noted in Operario’s and colleagues’ (2008) theme of hyper-femininity, it was, in all cases, imperative that the trans woman korean men dating black women a high degree of femininity in order to be an object of erotic interest (Joe: ‘No signs of manliness whatsoever, none.’). This theme is also consistent with Weinberg’s and Williams’ (2009) work, which found that men’s guy tricked into dating a transgender desire toward a trans woman was embedded in her physical appearance. Similarly, although none of the participants in the Weinberg and Williams study used the term ‘illusion’ to describe the trans woman’s presentation of femininity (illusion was an interpretation made by the researchers but not quoted by the participants), many did differentiate a trans woman from a ‘real’ woman and noted the element of fantasy as a component of sexual embodiment. Weinberg’s and Williams’ study, however, was comprised of both heterosexually and bisexually identified men, and both men who engaged in sexual encounters with a trans woman as well as those who had not engaged in a sexual encounter with a trans woman but were interested in doing so. Findings from this study differed greatly based upon the participants’ sexual identity; whereas, those who identified as bisexual incorporated the trans woman’s penis into the sexual encounter and those who identified as heterosexual did not. Thus, sexual dissonance was restricted to those who identified as heterosexual. As embracing the identity of a heterosexual male was an inclusion criterion of this current study, guy tricked into dating a transgender, navigation away from or toward the trans woman’s penis was irrespective of sexual identity.

The construction of a trans woman as an illusion was found to have different roles in descriptions of the participants’ sexual desire; furthermore, the ceremonial transfer and the penis of a trans woman was found to have different roles with regard to the maintenance of the illusion. For some participants, the trans woman was simply fantasised as being a cisgender woman (Vince: ‘It was like I was actually, felt like I was having sex with a woman.’); the trans woman served as a stand-in for a cisgender woman. With such narratives, neither the perceived ceremonial transfer from male to female status nor the penis were part of the erotic content and, consequently, it was necessary for the participant to have excluded the penis entirely from the sexual encounter in order to maintain the fantasy guy tricked into dating a transgender the trans woman was a cisgender woman (Terry: ‘When I’m with them I don’t even want to see their penis because guy tricked into dating a transgender it totally would mess up my thing I’ve got going on in my head.’). The penis signalled the unreality of the trans woman’s womanhood, while the successfully eroticised feminine appearance facilitated the ceremonial transfer that enabled the sexual fantasy that she was a cisgender woman. For these participants, from Garfinkel’s (1967) perspective, the sexual encounter with a trans woman was an erotic site of ceremonial transfer, which served to resolve their sexual dissonance. Additionally, consistent with Weeks (1985), the desire here could have been a manifestation of a previous instance (perhaps a previous relationship with a cisgender woman) and, thus, the relationship with the trans woman was a relationship to an illusion. Although sexual dissonance existed for some participants, no participant experienced concern about his own heterosexual identity.

For some, however, the penis was central to the erotic encounter. These participants were reminiscent of Mauk’s and Muñoz-Laboy’s (2013) phallus-centric theme whereby the penis was emphasised in the attraction. While some participants had reconciled their sexual desire for a trans woman, others traversed through a sexual dissonance (Jim: ‘He’s a woman. But in my right mind I know he ain’t.’). In some cases, guy tricked into dating a transgender, the illusory ‘transformation’ of a man into a woman was itself part of the erotic content (Howard: ‘The excitement of it is because he’s transformed from a man to a beautiful woman, and I like that, and that turns me on.’). For these participants, the ceremonial transfer itself was part of the erotic content. In such cases, the penis was central to the encounter because, as the essential insignia of sex in the natural attitude, the penis served to establish the eroticised reality of the trans woman’s sex status (male) that stood in contrast to the eroticised ceremonial transfer facilitated by trans woman’s femininity (the illusion of a woman). For other participants, what contributed to the sexual desire was the illusion of a cisgender woman with a penis (Anthony: ‘It’s a trip to be looking up at [a] woman, and see a woman’s face and then hear her sound like a woman that’s sexually excited, but to cum as a man’).

Although the ways in which the participants eroticised and constructed meaning about erotic desire with a trans woman online dating sites free messages not homogenous, the interpretation of a trans woman as pretending to be a cisgender woman played an important role in what was eroticised, how that eroticism was understood, and consequently provided the basis for categorising the various different types of erotic desire. Thus, the importance of social meaning and sexual scripts in understanding men’s sexuality (Plummer 2005) as well as underscoring the fact that some of these scripts and systems of meaning may reflect culturally oppressive values (e.g., transphobia). Given the complex nature of some of the erotic content (i.e., the eroticisation of sexual transformation, the eroticisation of a woman with a penis) in stimulating sexual arousal, guy tricked into dating a transgender biological nature of the erotic content was far from clear. It was not surprising that the construction of a trans woman as an illusion of a cisgender woman tended to correspond with the participants’ view that trans women were not ‘real’ women. Even when participants suggested that a trans woman was a kind of a woman or used the vernacular ‘pussy,’ male pronouns continued to be used in their narratives.

This study was limited by the nature of self-reported qualitative data, guy tricked into dating a transgender, which may include recall error and social desirability (Elliot, Huizinga, and Menard 1989). The study was limited by the methodolgy of using a convenience sample. Findings could differ if data were collected using a different recruitment strategy such as respondent-driven sampling (Heckathorn 1997) or time-space sampling methodology (MacKellar et al., 2007; Semaan 2010). Finally, the specific characteristics of the sample also served as a limitation as findings could differ from data collected in different geographic regions or among participants with different sociodemographic profiles, guy tricked into dating a transgender. Therefore, these findings do not necessarily reflect all heterosexual men who occasionally have sex with a trans woman. Despite these limitations, these findings are useful in understanding the sexual desire, erotic attraction, and fantasies of a sample of heterosexual men who have occasional sexual encounters with a trans woman. Thus, these data provide another framework for continuing the discourse on the complexity of erotic desire.

Acknowledgments

Footnotes

References